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Red Cows
03-06-2014, 05:06 PM
It means the best players in the state of Minnesota leave to play hockey out of state.


Yeah, after I saw what others had to say, I then understood this response.

UND92UMNLaw99
03-06-2014, 05:27 PM
BC picked up another big time commitment this week in Miles Wood. The east coast seems to be producing the uber-talented players lately like Wood, Milano, Eichel, and they are all staying out east for college. Mostly playing for BC. Is this a natural byproduct of the growth in popularity of hockey in a more densely populated region, and is it something that the Gopher hockey program can adjust to? I think we have to start getting some of these east coast elite kids ... maybe the B1G network will help. Personally, I think the best thing for recruiting would be an utter beat-down of BC in the NCAA championship game. Which would just make it 3 out of the last 4 games against them being Gopher blowouts. We have better tradition, better facilities, better fans, better hockey culture ... and the northeast sucks! I hope these kids figure this out some day. :)

Happy
03-06-2014, 05:50 PM
BC picked up another big time commitment this week in Miles Wood. The east coast seems to be producing the uber-talented players lately like Wood, Milano, Eichel, and they are all staying out east for college. Mostly playing for BC. Is this a natural byproduct of the growth in popularity of hockey in a more densely populated region, and is it something that the Gopher hockey program can adjust to? I think we have to start getting some of these east coast elite kids ... maybe the B1G network will help. Personally, I think the best thing for recruiting would be an utter beat-down of BC in the NCAA championship game. Which would just make it 3 out of the last 4 games against them being Gopher blowouts. We have better tradition, better facilities, better fans, better hockey culture ... and the northeast sucks! I hope these kids figure this out some day. :)

We had five guys leave early to go Pro. the pros are willing to pay them money, so clearly they have the talent.

mnstate0fhockey
03-06-2014, 05:52 PM
BC picked up another big time commitment this week in Miles Wood. The east coast seems to be producing the uber-talented players lately like Wood, Milano, Eichel, and they are all staying out east for college. Mostly playing for BC. Is this a natural byproduct of the growth in popularity of hockey in a more densely populated region, and is it something that the Gopher hockey program can adjust to? I think we have to start getting some of these east coast elite kids ... maybe the B1G network will help. Personally, I think the best thing for recruiting would be an utter beat-down of BC in the NCAA championship game. Which would just make it 3 out of the last 4 games against them being Gopher blowouts. We have better tradition, better facilities, better fans, better hockey culture ... and the northeast sucks! I hope these kids figure this out some day. :)

I'm not sold that Miles Wood is another Jack Eichel. I think he'll be good, but not sold he'll be Eichel level good. And until guys like Eichel, Wood, and Milano step on college ice and produce, it's never a given they'll play at a high level. We should know that as well as anyone. Eichel is probably the safest bet.

And BTW - Eichel is committed to BU, not BC. And I would take Hudson Fasching over Milano any day. We produce our share of ultra talented players too.

There are some great players coming out of the East, but that's nothing new. There are great players coming out of MN and elsewhere too. The Gophers have expanded their recruiting reach. They just need to continue to recruit the best players they can (from here or elsewhere). That said, a majority will continue to come from MN because MN produces far more players than anywhere else in this country.

ShotFromThePoint
03-06-2014, 10:09 PM
Been reading some of the bracketology on the main page the past few weeks. Is it pretty much a done deal that the Gophers and UND will be in the same regional? Or just wishful thinking. Last I checked they had it setup with Wisconsin, UND and the Gophers. If that's true, so much for having a #1 seed.

The Rube
03-06-2014, 10:11 PM
Been reading some of the bracketology on the main page the past few weeks. Is it pretty much a done deal that the Gophers and UND will be in the same regional? Or just wishful thinking. Last I checked they had it setup with Wisconsin, UND and the Gophers. If that's true, so much for having a #1 seed.

UND/MN will almost be for sure, IMO. Depending on how the seeding shakes out, I wouldn't be surprised to also see either SCSU/WI in there, too.

Personally, who cares? We're better than them, so f it. :D

Edit: I was working it out last week, and it's POSSIBLE to have MN, UND, MI, and either WI/SCSU in one bracket. Not probable by any means, but possible. :eek:

FredsDeadFriend
03-07-2014, 02:14 AM
I think we have to start getting some of these east coast elite kids ... maybe the B1G network will help. Personally, I think the best thing for recruiting would be an utter beat-down of BC in the NCAA championship game. Which would just make it 3 out of the last 4 games against them being Gopher blowouts. We have better tradition, better facilities, better fans, better hockey culture ... and the northeast sucks! I hope these kids figure this out some day. :)


Not sure about either making an effort to get east coast kids, or our chances of getting any if we make an effort? I'd think it would be more realistic to continue to try to lock down all of the best that Minnesota produces, while supplementing that with the very best players from anywhere other than the NE.

If you combine the best players from the West Coast, the south, the plain states with the best from Canada and Europe, I have no doubt that we can stay ahead of BC in the battle field that is college hockey recruiting.

But another aspect to consider is the importance of getting the right players for the program, not just the best. Not to pick on anyone, but the Gophers have recruited some players who seemed to see UMn as just a stepping stone to the NHL. One and doners, and outside of Vanek, who stayed 2 years at least, not just one, I don't remember any one and doners who helped lead the team to a Title before they went pro, much less to a Frozen Four even?


The guys who led us to our Back2Back Titles were, for the most part, 4 year players. They were experienced and loyal and if you compare their NHL stats to those of the one and doners that didn't help the Gophers to win any hardware, that I can remember(I'm getting old so my memory is not the best, I must admit), their stats pale in comparison.

So it would seem to me that the best thing to do is figure out how to get more of those kinds of players and fewer of the one and done types. When Vanek was the only one and done type on the team, his contributions were a bonus, because they were combined with others who had experience and skills as well. The more one and done type players we have on our roster, the more we seem to fall short at the end of the season when it matters the most.

I didn't expect us to lose so many from last years squad, but knowing what kind of money we are talking about, I can't blame the players or be mad at them, and its hard to blame the coaches for recruiting them, either, and when they are recruiting them its hard to know for sure whether they will perform well and bolt after a year or two or whether they will be a complete bust?! There are exceptions to that rule, of course. I think we all knew exactly how good Kessel was going to be.


But this all has brought on a strange phenomenon for me, as when I look at the team's stats, I cheer when I see that the Seniors only account for 12% of the team's scoring, because not losing much in the way of scoring to graduation is usually a good sign for the future, but with what has happened in the past to the Gophers, I also find myself cheering when I see almost ZERO Gophers ranked among the Top 50 scorers in the nation. I am a huge Women's hockey fan as well, and the opposite is true for that team, I cheer when I see how highly rated all of the Gopher players are in the national scoring rankings, because I know there is no WNHL for them to leave early to go play in. But for the men, I love when I see the scoring so spread out, it gives me hope that maybe we won't lose 5 players early to the NHL. I love that the Freshman accounted for well over 40% of the scoring earlier on in the season, that could bode well for the future, its always great when freshmen contribute right away, but I'm also pleased that their percentage has dropped significantly as the Juniors are really starting to find their scoring on the rise as honestly, losing a freshman to the NHL could be worse than losing a Junior to the NHL as we've already gotten 3 years outta them and often times a player's potential to improve is greater from their freshman season to their sophomore season in comparison to a Junior
s rate of improvement to their senior season, as they should have already made those big strides and improvements earlier in their careers. But at the same time, that's not always true, and there is the benefit of having all of that experience you get from a 4th year player.

But I find myself not knowing exactly what to cheer for anymore. It's so different from following the women's team. They have great players and it doesn't matter how much better they get, we just seem to reload and gain more depth and get even better than before.

Now I am a guy and a sports fan in general, not just a hockey fan, and I interact with a lot of sports fans, most of whom do not think much of women's hockey, so I feel its natural of me to lean a tad towards wanting the Men to be successful more than the women, just because the rest of the world seems to give more of a care about how the men do than the women, which I think is stupid, but that's the reality, so it makes it tough when its so much harder to know what to want for the men's team? I dislike pro sports enough that I almost wish the NHL would just go away. It's great that its there for the players sakes, as its great they have opportunities after college, but from a fans perspective, its different. I want the team to win Natl Titles, or at least get to FFs, but the players need to perform well to do this, and the better they perform the better chance they will bolt at the end of the season for the money in the NHL.

This may be why I have come to almost, no, I do, I simply do enjoy following the women's team more than I enjoy following the men's team. There is so much more consistency and stability in that program, it is absolutely incredibly awesome fun following them.



But I've babbled on long enough about my doubts as to what I hope for, for the men's team, and just have to go with my gut that what is going on right now could easily be the best thing for the team.


As I said already the freshman class earlier in the season were accounting for 45% of the scoring and 56.5% of the goals scored, which is incredible, that's a great thing when considering the future, Lucia obviously brought in a stellar class which was needed with all that we lost early to the NHL. But had they continued on that pace we could have easily lost several of them to the NHL(we might still, but its not as likely now). But the largest class we have, the Juniors took over the role of point scorers on this team. The Srs earlier percentages were 12% of the points and 6% of the goals scored and they are still at 12% of the points scored, so if we don't lose anyone early to the NHL, then that should or could give us great hope for the future of this team, at least the more immediate future of next year that is. The Soph class was at 10% of the pts scored and are now at 11%, but there are only 4 in that class and only 3 that have contributed so far. But that Junior class was only at 33% of the pts scored and 26% of the goals scored earlier in the season but have surged up to 41% of the points scored now, but the best thing about it for those of us who fear the annual call of the NHL, is that its spread out among 6 players with only one having more than 30 pts, and he is only at 31 pts. I'm not saying the NHL won't come calling on any of these guys, but with their stats being so spread out amongst so many different players on the team, it just makes it less likely than any of them will get noticed or called on by their NHL teams. Or at least that is the hope.


Now I'm not saying losing players to the NHL is the end of the world, obviously we lost a ton from last years team and are #1 this year, and we might even be better off without some of those guys? That's debatable both ways. But we are not going to be this blessed every year with an incoming freshman class like we have this year, either. And even if we are, do we want to be depending on freshman to carry the load every season, into the playoffs especially?! Do we want to become the hockey version of the Calipari/Kentucky show in cbb?! It hasn't worked that great for them, as Championships seem more like the exception than the rule with that way of doing things. And doing things that way hasn't brought UMn any championships yet.


Lucia's first few years here, we were more like the Butler of cbb, the midmajor team with tons of experience and smart players and role players who knew their roles and a good coach, all who worked as a team, and they did well, in back to back years.

But then he turned into Calipari's Kentucky, bringing in top recruiting classes that did the one and done thing and left the program decimated with instability, discord and little in the way of talented leadership. There were fans who wanted Lucia fired. Minnesota is not the kind of state that likes that whole calipari Kentucky way, especially when it doesn't deliver hockey championships, much less FFs or even tourney appearances.

But now it seems that Lucia is getting things more under control, he's more and more figuring out how to bring in the right kind of players. Hopefully this Junior class as a whole can provide the leadership that is needed and that the outstanding freshman class will blossom under that leadership and the sophomores and seniors will do their parts and we can finally win another Championship?! And maybe with a more balanced approach to things, maybe some stability can be established?

Koho
03-07-2014, 06:11 AM
Not sure ....... can be established?

No one will read this much.

I skimmed parts. You say that Lucia's first Championship teams were made of role players? The first year had the top scorer in the country, the top goal scorer in the country and the best player in the country (3 different people). The next year, Vanek was a one-and-done type player who happened to stay an extra year. Don't have time to go into all that has changed since then with NHL CBA (rare to get seniors to stay who have legit NHL shot) and how the college landscape has changed and how Lucia has adjusted (more small guys), how there have always been role player recruits and why all this means that even though no one is in the top 30 in scoring, there are still several flight risks. It just ain't that easy to know with these kids.

(But if I were to explain all that, I think I could do it in a much shorter, more readable post.)

Tiggsy
03-07-2014, 08:35 AM
Been reading some of the bracketology on the main page the past few weeks. Is it pretty much a done deal that the Gophers and UND will be in the same regional? Or just wishful thinking. Last I checked they had it setup with Wisconsin, UND and the Gophers. If that's true, so much for having a #1 seed.

I think the only way it doesn't happen with both, as long as they don't throw bracket integrity too far out the window, is if both teams get into the same band. That way they have to be placed in different regions.

firstpusk
03-07-2014, 09:06 AM
Not sure about either making an effort to...

ever read another one of your posts.

mnstate0fhockey
03-07-2014, 12:20 PM
Per discussion on where we should be recruiting and also on the topic of Jack Eichel. Recruit in Minnesota and you deal with far less of this...


@TSNBobMcKenzie: There are whispers elite 2015 prospect Jack Eichel may consider not going to BU if he could play head-to-head in OHL vs. Connor McDavid.

Bonin21
03-07-2014, 12:27 PM
Per discussion on where we should be recruiting and also on the topic of Jack Eichel. Recruit in Minnesota and you deal with far less of this...
We also haven't had a recruit of that caliber in a while...

mnstate0fhockey
03-07-2014, 12:37 PM
We also haven't had a recruit of that caliber in a while...

When was the last time Mass had a recruit of that caliber either? Not sure that means they are more likely to produce more.

Bonin21
03-07-2014, 12:43 PM
When was the last time Mass had a recruit of that caliber either? Not sure that means they are more likely to produce more.
You're more likely to have that issue with top 5 lock picks, regardless of college choice. If Hanifin didn't accelerate I bet he'd play in Canada next year.

mnstate0fhockey
03-07-2014, 12:49 PM
You're more likely to have that issue with top 5 lock picks, regardless of college choice. If Hanifin didn't accelerate I bet he'd play in Canada next year.

No doubt, but I'll still argue less likely with a kid from MN.

If we should be looking at anything BC is doing in their recruiting, it should be how York has gotten so many kids to change their commitments late to attend BC. Gaudreau (granted coaching change was partially reason with him), Milano, and now Wood.

Imagine if we had been able to recruit a guy like David Backes late. Still think he ends up at MSU?

Hammy
03-07-2014, 05:57 PM
The Gophers adjusted their recruiting a few years ago. That adjustment was focusing a little more on players that fit the profile of good contributing 4 year college players (mainly due to the NHL's bias against smaller players) and not as much on what the NHL future might be. Guys that have great skill but don't have the size the NHL covets. That's not to say they will completely ignore those guys (a la Fasching). It just means finding a better balance and placing more of a projection on the college performance. Because our ultimate goal here isn't maximizing how many guys we have in the NHL... it is winning championships on the college level. I think we got a little too caught up in the NHL stuff in our recruiting years ago... which is understandable to some degree because it is nice to be able to gobble up that kind of talent.

As far as location... once it is outside of MN's borders, it doesn't matter if they come from east coast, west coast, Europe, etc. They just need to get the guys they feel are a fit. Frankly, we will never be huge players outside of MN because it just isn't necessary. Supplement all the top MN kids we get with a small number of good non-MN kids is all that is necessary. I think they have done that too (i.e. Bristedt and Baker are doing real well on their respective levels)

Bonin21
03-07-2014, 06:09 PM
The Gophers adjusted their recruiting a few years ago. That adjustment was focusing a little more on players that fit the profile of good contributing 4 year college players (mainly due to the NHL's bias against smaller players) and not as much on what the NHL future might be.

So if Phil, Wheeler, Okposo, and EJ were in the HS class of 2014 and the Gophers had room, they would not take them all?

ShotFromThePoint
03-09-2014, 08:25 AM
Figured I'd log on to see tons of posts from SCSU fans thanking us for allowing them to win a regular season title...I mean they're basically sharing it with us again this year, right? They owe us for leaving them.

In all seriousness, glad a Minnesota team won it over some No-Namers.

pgb-ohio
03-09-2014, 12:09 PM
No one will read this much.I did.:p

But obviously some streamlining would have been in order. And if one must address multiple topics in a single post, section headings would be a big help. Still, the post included many interesting thoughts. A few quick replies:


So it would seem to me that the best thing to do is figure out how to get more of those kinds of players and fewer of the one and done types. When Vanek was the only one and done type on the team, his contributions were a bonus, because they were combined with others who had experience and skills as well. The more one and done type players we have on our roster, the more we seem to fall short at the end of the season when it matters the most... I dislike pro sports enough that I almost wish the NHL would just go away. It's great that its there for the players sakes, as its great they have opportunities after college, but from a fans perspective, its different. I want the team to win Natl Titles, or at least get to FFs, but the players need to perform well to do this, and the better they perform the better chance they will bolt at the end of the season for the money in the NHL.If it's at the end of our season, that limits the damage. We haven't become like Minor League Baseball with all of the mid-season call-ups. I find it impossible to emotionally connect with minor league ball for that reason. It's like playing a pinball machine that automatically tilts whenever you start getting close to the high score. This is why the Christmas departure of Kyle Okposo was such a threat to all of college hockey, not just the Gophers.


This may be why I have come to almost, no, I do, I simply do enjoy following the women's team more than I enjoy following the men's team. There is so much more consistency and stability in that program, it is absolutely incredibly awesome fun following them.Understood completely. In a perfect world, that's what college sports should be. I also follow Women's D-1, and this is one of the reasons.


As I said already the freshman class earlier in the season were accounting for 45% of the scoring and 56.5% of the goals scored, which is incredible, that's a great thing when considering the future, Lucia obviously brought in a stellar class which was needed with all that we lost early to the NHL. But had they continued on that pace we could have easily lost several of them to the NHL(we might still, but its not as likely now). But the largest class we have, the Juniors took over the role of point scorers on this team. The Srs earlier percentages were 12% of the points and 6% of the goals scored and they are still at 12% of the points scored, so if we don't lose anyone early to the NHL, then that should or could give us great hope for the future of this team, at least the more immediate future of next year that is. The Soph class was at 10% of the pts scored and are now at 11%, but there are only 4 in that class and only 3 that have contributed so far. But that Junior class was only at 33% of the pts scored and 26% of the goals scored earlier in the season but have surged up to 41% of the points scored now, but the best thing about it for those of us who fear the annual call of the NHL, is that its spread out among 6 players with only one having more than 30 pts, and he is only at 31 pts. I'm not saying the NHL won't come calling on any of these guys, but with their stats being so spread out amongst so many different players on the team, it just makes it less likely than any of them will get noticed or called on by their NHL teams. Or at least that is the hope.Balanced scoring can be good for both team chemistry and player retention. And it's one thing to simply assert that a team has balanced scoring; you proved it with numbers. Appreciate that you took the time.


Lucia's first few years here, we were more like the Butler of cbb, the midmajor team with tons of experience and smart players and role players who knew their roles and a good coach, all who worked as a team, and they did well, in back to back years.

But then he turned into Calipari's Kentucky, bringing in top recruiting classes that did the one and done thing and left the program decimated with instability, discord and little in the way of talented leadership. There were fans who wanted Lucia fired. Minnesota is not the kind of state that likes that whole calipari Kentucky way, especially when it doesn't deliver hockey championships, much less FFs or even tourney appearances.While I don't think that the Gopher Hockey experience actually reached either extreme, it's definitely an interesting comparison.

Don't be discouraged by the negative feedback. A bit of editing... maybe go with one topic at a time... you'll be fine.

Hammy
03-09-2014, 12:27 PM
So if Phil, Wheeler, Okposo, and EJ were in the HS class of 2014 and the Gophers had room, they would not take them all?

We saw how much damage all that turnover did in the short term. The reason why the team has been so much better in recent years is because talent AND stability. When you keep your best guys three or four years, the results follow. I think they'd still go after a few of them. All of them? No.