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  • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

    Size plays a role in the NHL because those guys draft so much of it because the style is more physical. It's clogged up by the nature of their style. But that's not the rink size at fault. As I said, I watched some of the greatest hockey players ever show tremendous skill and creativity on that size sheet. A lot of it comes down to what the refs/rules allow. Cut down on interference, the game opens up for everybody.

    The rink size cuts down some open space but the question is more about whether that has a significant impact. I don't think cutting down on 10 feet of width has that dramatic of an impact on their ability to be successful nor do I think it dramatically hurts the flow of skill play. And let's be honest... we know the brand of hockey Coach Lucia wants to emphasize. Do you really think he'd want to do something that was going to HURT that brand of hockey he wants to play? Something tells me his hockey mind knows better.

    By your account of things, you'd think any college team that plays on an NHL type rink would avoid recruiting any of the smaller guys on the college level because they just want to clog, trap, etc. as that is what you think they benefit from on their size rink. But that's not backed up by reality and I gave you examples that prove to the contrary. In particular, BC completely wipes out that rationale. BC has been the most successful college program of the past decade and they have had a number of highly skilled small guys that played big roles in their success. UMD's title team had a top scoring line built on two guys under 5'9" and another guy that was 5'11 and not a big bruiser (and JT Brown at 5'10).

    I'll give you an example of how rink size sometimes plays into incorrect assumptions. Last off-season, I saw some guy making comments that Cammy and Kloos wouldn't be as effective in college because he felt much of their offensive success in the USHL was based on the fact they played on an Olympic sheet at Waterloo (close to it via 200x98 sheet). So I decided to look into their USHL stats last year to see if that opinion had merit. What did I find? I found that both players were very close to a 50/50 split in their offensive stats based on home rink (big sheet) vs. away rinks (I believe there is only one other Olympic sheet in the USHL and the rest are regulation or smaller). Considering players tend to have better home stats than road stats, I found that close to even split to be pretty darn good. In other words, his remarks on rink size having a negative impact on their game wasn't validated (at least it wasn't based on statistical production).

    As I said, I have no major problem with the Olympic sheet. It's not like I would be upset either way. But I do think some people have opinion based on gut feelings more than what reality actually tends to show.

    As for your bottom statement... the point is most of these guys are coming in from having played many of their games in the prior year or two on regulation rinks. They are generally more accustomed to doing their thing on that size rink than they are on a rink that is more of an outlier.
    Last edited by Hammy; 11-19-2013, 12:03 PM.
    University of Minnesota

    Twitter: Hammy Hockey

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    • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

      Originally posted by Hammy View Post
      Not sure how old some people here are but I don't recall fast skating and creativity to be much of a problem on NHL size rinks when I was a kid/teen when I grew up watching some of the greatest offensive players that ever lived do their magic on an NHL size sheet.
      I watched the North Stars "back in the day"

      Have you ever watched one of those old late 70's early 80's NHL games when they replay them once in a while? The players and pads aren't even close to the size of what is out there today, they had tons of free wheeling space on the standard size rink because of that fact alone. The pads on players and goalies are ridiculous in today's game.

      Sorry but I would rather not watch the Wisconsin Badger type style of clogging boring play, give me Gopher wide open "pond Hockey" any day.

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      • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

        I'm not going to get in the middle of the debate on ice size, because I can see both sides, but one thing I do know will help recruiting is the upgrades to the locker rooms, team rooms, etc.... I've seen/heard about the new facilities at Notre Dame and Penn State (among others) and they look/sound pretty impressive. Really happy and excited to see the updates they make at Mariucci. Sounds like these areas will be completely redone and should be top notch. That will certainly help with recruiting (not that we needed a ton of help)
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        • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

          Minnesota- North Dakota running away with poll so far for best college hockey rivalry

          http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2013...e-gostisbehere
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          • Originally posted by SanTropez View Post
            I watched the North Stars "back in the day"

            Have you ever watched one of those old late 70's early 80's NHL games when they replay them once in a while? The players and pads aren't even close to the size of what is out there today, they had tons of free wheeling space on the standard size rink because of that fact alone. The pads on players and goalies are ridiculous in today's game.

            Sorry but I would rather not watch the Wisconsin Badger type style of clogging boring play, give me Gopher wide open "pond Hockey" any day.
            Do you read any other points? Just because you have a regulation rink doesn't mean you are doomed to play like UW. How can you explain BCs style of play and success with it if what you seem to be assuming were true? BC plays on a 200x87.

            I agree pads are ridiculous size but are you trying to tell me that's what creates less space? Lol... A few inches here or there of extra pads?

            As for player size, it is a factor but it's mainly because the NHL allowed the game to turn into more of a slug fest and less about skill play. The rink size isn't at fault for that.
            University of Minnesota

            Twitter: Hammy Hockey

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            • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

              Originally posted by Hammy View Post
              Do you read any other points? Just because you have a regulation rink doesn't mean you are doomed to play like UW. How can you explain BCs style of play and success with it if what you seem to be assuming were true? BC plays on a 200x87.

              I agree pads are ridiculous size but are you trying to tell me that's what creates less space? Lol... A few inches here or there of extra pads?

              As for player size, it is a factor but it's mainly because the NHL allowed the game to turn into more of a slug fest and less about skill play. The rink size isn't at fault for that.


              The other contradiction to that line of thinking is that the KC ice surface is actually 200 x 97.

              Whatever style of play that the Badgers employ, it's not on an NHL sized rink.

              My formative years of watching the NHL were through the 80's. Parents shared Hawks tickets, so I got to go to a bunch of games (and watch many many more on TV, of course) and see the players of that era and I agree, it was wide open and a lot of fun to watch. Savard was amazing and the Oilers were flat out ridiculous. Rink size didn't matter.

              I will agree that watching NHL games that turn into a clog-the-middle-fest, shot blocking extravaganza gets old, but I rarely watch non-playoff games that don't include the Hawks and they're usually fun to watch. Could see the Gophers going to a Hawks puck possession style game on a smaller rink and doing it quite well with the skill that you guys get.

              Can see both sides of this argument.


              Carry on...

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              • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

                Originally posted by Hammy View Post
                As for player size, it is a factor but it's mainly because the NHL allowed the game to turn into more of a slug fest and less about skill play. The rink size isn't at fault for that.
                Depending on when you believe "the NHL allowed the game to turn into more of a slug fest" I may disagree with this. Certainly back in the day of the 70's Bruins and '80's Broad Street Bullies the NHL was more of a slug fest than it is today. Yet the players of today are bigger (and stronger) than they were back then, and the amount of space on the ice has remained the same.
                Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

                  Originally posted by Hammy View Post
                  Do you read any other points? Just because you have a regulation rink doesn't mean you are doomed to play like UW. How can you explain BCs style of play and success with it if what you seem to be assuming were true? BC plays on a 200x87.

                  I agree pads are ridiculous size but are you trying to tell me that's what creates less space? Lol... A few inches here or there of extra pads?

                  As for player size, it is a factor but it's mainly because the NHL allowed the game to turn into more of a slug fest and less about skill play. The rink size isn't at fault for that.
                  To go back a couple posts, guys in the USHL are playing against smaller and less physically developed players than they face in college. So there is going to be a feel of more space out there. Take the same size rink and make the opposition bigger and more mature (like in college vs. the USHL) and that space shrinks a bit. I think that point remains.

                  The narrower rink doesn't guarantee a UW style, but it certainly makes that style more viable. I'm not sure using BC as an example is necessarily valid. They are a pretty extraordinary team with some pretty extraordinary players.
                  UMD is an interesting team, but if you look at the games they played in the NCAA Tournament the year they won it, JT Brown and both Mike and Jack Connelly only scored on special teams. In fact, I think you could say they won that tournament on the strength of goaltending and their power play. So again, I'm not sure how valid a point that is.

                  You said early on that looking at the pro game doesn't quite equate to the college game, and I agree with that. There are a lot of other factors that go into it. The pool of players they have to pull from, the amount of games they play, etc. In general, college teams are going to be smaller across the board, and recruiting highly talented players who are considered too small for the NHL so that they stick around until they are veterans is proving to be an effective strategy. That probably isn't ever going to change. But that doesn't mean that a smaller surface doesn't reward size and reach at the cost of speed and agility. An extra 10-15 feet overall or 5-7.5 feet on each wall doesn't sound like much, but it makes a difference. My guess is that if the NHL moved to Olympic size ice and made no other changes, you would start to see the way teams are built change slightly. And some of these small, highly talented college players would become 2-3 year players instead of 4.

                  But the crux of it really is to what degree does the size of the sheet impact the game. That's a bit dicier of a question. I'm sure there is some way to quantify the impact, but that's above my pay grade. To be simple, my contention is that it does impact the game to some noticeable degree. When guys can cover a larger percentage of the ice surface without having to move their feet, it makes a difference and rewards players with a bigger wingspan, and it places more emphasis on systems than on skating ability and creativity. I'm happy to agree to disagree on that point, and simply restate that if Mariucci shrinks its surface I'll be bummed.

                  As for Lucia, If I were to make a guess, his thinking probably has more to do with being accustomed to the size of the sheet come the post-season than it does anything else. Can MN still have success on an NHL-size rink? I don't have any doubt they can. And playing home games on a narrower sheet *might* prepare them better for NCAA Tournament play. But I think it would be more entertaining, freewheeling hockey if they kept the rink at Olympic specs.
                  Last edited by Stauber1; 11-19-2013, 02:56 PM.

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                  • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

                    I do think goalie pad size has contributed to creating less space on the ice. Back in the day when pads were a lot smaller, an open head on shot had a lot better chance than it does today. With that in mind offenses worked a little more just to get an open look. Today it's all about taking away vision, getting tips, deflections, and rebounds. To me, that favors packing the front of the net and it favors bigger, stronger players.
                    I'm no expert on the NHL but another contributing factor to the evolution in play was probably Detroit winning a lot of cups playing a trapping style. Most teams adopted some form or another of what the Redwings were doing over time.

                    I like Big Ice and I cannot lie... I'd much rather everyone played on big ice and with smaller pads, but frankly 3000 square feet of an NHL arena is some pretty expensive real estate.

                    Edit: And now that I think about it, so are Goalie pads.
                    Last edited by Wisko McBadgerton; 11-19-2013, 04:07 PM.
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                    • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

                      I have to question how much of the college game is being watched if the fear is a smaller sheet without question will restrict open play. A lack of skill and a trapping defense is absolutely more of a contributor than the size of the ice.

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                      • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

                        Cripes do we ever need the conference schedule to start.
                        the state of hockey is good

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                        • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

                          Justin Bourne is a former UAA hockey player who writes a terrific hockey blog, Backhand Shelf

                          Just a few months ago he wrote an interesting article on the differences between playing on an Olympic sized rink as opposed to an NHL sized rink.
                          Linky here:

                          http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2013/0...ed-ice-sheets/

                          Enjoy!

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                          • Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
                            The other contradiction to that line of thinking is that the KC ice surface is actually 200 x 97.

                            Whatever style of play that the Badgers employ, it's not on an NHL sized rink.

                            My formative years of watching the NHL were through the 80's. Parents shared Hawks tickets, so I got to go to a bunch of games (and watch many many more on TV, of course) and see the players of that era and I agree, it was wide open and a lot of fun to watch. Savard was amazing and the Oilers were flat out ridiculous. Rink size didn't matter.

                            I will agree that watching NHL games that turn into a clog-the-middle-fest, shot blocking extravaganza gets old, but I rarely watch non-playoff games that don't include the Hawks and they're usually fun to watch. Could see the Gophers going to a Hawks puck possession style game on a smaller rink and doing it quite well with the skill that you guys get.

                            Can see both sides of this argument.


                            Carry on...
                            There's too much "this." and "I'd like to see so-and-so on so-and-so's line" to let your comment be noticed but as long as they're at it, this.
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                            • Originally posted by go4puckfan2.0 View Post
                              justin bourne is a former uaa hockey player who writes a terrific hockey blog, backhand shelf

                              just a few months ago he wrote an interesting article on the differences between playing on an olympic sized rink as opposed to an nhl sized rink.
                              Linky here:

                              http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2013/0...ed-ice-sheets/

                              enjoy!
                              boom

                              Comment


                              • Re: Gophers 2013-14 B1G Things To Come!

                                Originally posted by cross cheque View Post
                                There's too much "this." and "I'd like to see so-and-so on so-and-so's line" to let your comment be noticed but as long as they're at it, this.
                                Gurt made a logical post with a point and contains a positive comment about the Gophers. We're just having a hard time accepting that it's real.

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