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poisondart
11-10-2013, 08:44 PM
Agreed, it doesn't limit a players scoring but in this case I think you'd agree that many of Rau's goals were scored in a similar fashion. I just don't see him camped by the left post as often. Kyle is on pace to put up a similar point total to the last 2 years, I suspect the difference will be the distribution of goals vs assists. We'll agree to disagree about who should have played center on the top line last yearb but I'm absolutely certain that Rau was the superior passer.

HarleyMC
11-11-2013, 01:42 AM
Rau will get his share of goals but its has to be noted he's playing a different position. You won't see him camped on the week side nearly as often because his positional responsibilities have changed now that he's playing in the middle. I thinks the world of Fasching and Warning but their goal scoring pace is being set by the play of #7. Its a great testimony to Kyle's ability that he could switch to a tougher position to play and make the players around him better. In my opinion he should have played center last year, Bjugy possesses great physical skill but isn't close to kyle between the ears. Kyles play in his own end has been stellar and unlike last year he is seldom leading the brake up the ice but instead is getting the puck to his wingers with time and space to make plays. First and foremost the center is the 3rd D.

I tend to agree with you. Rau led the nation last year in GWG (7), with most of those launched from being camped on the edge of the crease. The center position is a leadership position and requires different playmaking strategies that do not afford him the luxury of camping in his sweet spot and punching in Gs from in front of the net. His current goal total is his lowest of any his previous seasons after 8 games, but he has more assists. In retrospect, IMO Rau might be a little more clever of a playmaker than Bjugs was.

Koho
11-11-2013, 08:50 AM
I tend to agree with you. Rau led the nation last year in GWG (7), with most of those launched from being camped on the edge of the crease. The center position is a leadership position and requires different playmaking strategies that do not afford him the luxury of camping in his sweet spot and punching in Gs from in front of the net. His current goal total is his lowest of any his previous seasons after 8 games, but he has more assists. In retrospect, IMO Rau might be a little more clever of a playmaker than Bjugs was.

Last week, the factor on the board for determining who plays center was faceoffs. This week it is passing? There are many aspects that make a good center. One of the main ones that tDon has mentioned for putting Rau there this year, and is a big part of why Bjugs was there last year, is that in the offensive zone, the center will more often be the one who gets the puck in the slot in front of the net with the best shooting angle, so having your best shot in that position makes sense. And the Center is often the one has the puck on his stick the most so why not have your best player there? This is why Centers typically score more goals (11 of top 20 goals in NHL are C's). Bjugs had one of the best shots in the country last year and was able to pass and defend well and was good at faceoffs. (For example, you don't see Ovechkin at Center because he is not strong defensively.) Rau was well suited to tap in rebounds or passes he received on the wing and I still agree tDon knew what he was doing with Bjugs at Center. Do you realize he is playing Center in the NHL this year? If he is not suited for the position why is he playing there in the highest level of hockey just one year removed from college? You won't convince me that 1. tDon made the wrong call having Bjugs at center last year, and 2. that Rau, despite having more responsibilities shouldn't have more goals as a Center. I think the goals will start to come for him, at least I hope they do.

HarleyMC
11-11-2013, 10:33 AM
Last week, the factor on the board for determining who plays center was faceoffs. This week it is passing? There are many aspects that make a good center. One of the main ones that tDon has mentioned for putting Rau there this year, and is a big part of why Bjugs was there last year, is that in the offensive zone, the center will more often be the one who gets the puck in the slot in front of the net with the best shooting angle, so having your best shot in that position makes sense. And the Center is often the one has the puck on his stick the most so why not have your best player there? This is why Centers typically score more goals (11 of top 20 goals in NHL are C's). Bjugs had one of the best shots in the country last year and was able to pass and defend well and was good at faceoffs. (For example, you don't see Ovechkin at Center because he is not strong defensively.) Rau was well suited to tap in rebounds or passes he received on the wing and I still agree tDon knew what he was doing with Bjugs at Center. Do you realize he is playing Center in the NHL this year? If he is not suited for the position why is he playing there in the highest level of hockey just one year removed from college? You won't convince me that 1. tDon made the wrong call having Bjugs at center last year, and 2. that Rau, despite having more responsibilities shouldn't have more goals as a Center. I think the goals will start to come for him, at least I hope they do.

Determinations for positions are never based upon one factor alone. You apparently misunderstood the discussion on faceoffs. I'm fully aware of the criteria of responsibility for centers, I've played both center and wing at a fairly high level in organized hockey. Yes, I do realize Bjugs is playing center for the Panthers. Not sure why you're inferring much of what you wrote, but I did not say Bjugs was not suited for the center position or whether Lucia made a mistake by slotting him there.

But from the creative play I've seen in cycling routines from Rau he strikes me as potentially a little more clever of a playmaker than Bjugs. In games I've seen he's providing more back and front cycling support as a center and often ends up as an F3 in the high slot, not F2 (Fasching) which was what I commented on as to why his G total so far represents his poorest start yet in his Gopher career. Yet he has more assists than in previous seasons which I partially attribute to his different responsibility as a playmaking center. Unfortunately, Rau doesn't have near the "one timer" power shot from the high slot like Bjugs did. In terms of overall scoring comparisons, Rau's goal scoring totals have consistently regressed over the past two seasons as he tends to have long stretches of disappearing from the scoring sheet, as does Warning. I hope I'm wrong, but I would be surprised if this trend does not continue.

poisondart
11-11-2013, 12:49 PM
Bjugy playing center in the NHL is an apples to oranges comparison. The NHL has trended towards larger and larger center icemen for years now. Gone are the days of Gretzky, Dionne, Broten and Savard. Look up and down the rosters of NHL teams and the the number of centers under 6 ft is remarkably low. The little guys are almost exclusively on the wing now. The college game and pro game are far different, large centers that can protect the puck and help out down low are the norm. Chances are if Kyle makes it in the show it will be at wing but its my belief he's a better college center than the other guy. Just one mans opinion so once again we should just agree to disagree.

Hammy
11-11-2013, 04:32 PM
Bjugstad was a physical force whose biggest weapon was never making players around him better. He's the finisher. While Rau can play that type of role (though not with the power one timer a la Nick), I do agree that he is the headier player that does do the little things to make plays for those around him.

I said this on GPL weeks ago and I still see it as an occasional issue... Rau needs to recognize his responsibilities as a leader in setting the tone and keep his head on straight on the ice. Not get caught up in talking and stay under control. Don't take needless penalties. He still loses composure at times. I know it is learning process and he will get better but he needs to really focus on that.

Koho
11-11-2013, 07:15 PM
Bjugy playing center in the NHL is an apples to oranges comparison. The NHL has trended towards larger and larger center icemen for years now. Gone are the days of Gretzky, Dionne, Broten and Savard. Look up and down the rosters of NHL teams and the the number of centers under 6 ft is remarkably low. The little guys are almost exclusively on the wing now. The college game and pro game are far different, large centers that can protect the puck and help out down low are the norm. Chances are if Kyle makes it in the show it will be at wing but its my belief he's a better college center than the other guy. Just one mans opinion so once again we should just agree to disagree.

I am fully aware that NHL is different than College. (Way to pick out one point I said and focus on it while ignoring much of my argument.) But the needs of the position are similar. You need a guy who can play both ways at both levels. Ovechkin has good size, but you won't see him at center just because he is big. If you can play center in the NHL, you can play the position in college, but not necessarily vice-versa.

And Harley knows more than all because he played. I still play hockey (sort-of - oldtimers) and have coached, along with a number of other people who post here. The discussion I was referring to was about whether Bjugs was the right choice for center last year, and despite your vast experience, I tend to side with the guy who has two NCAA championships under his belt on this one. (And I admit, I replied to your post, but at least half of what I wrote in that post was in response to dart, not you. It was just that you agreed with some of his post so I used yours to reply. So you may have misinterpreted my response. Yes Rau is a good playmaker, doesn't have the opportunity for the side of net tap in, and he does have a lot of points. I think Bjugs was the better choice last year.)

As for my contention about Rau this year, I don't argue with his shift in position affecting how he plays. He isn't cleaning up after the other two forwards. And yes, he has very good playmaking skills. That wasn't my argument. But he is a Junior and a captain, and at his current pace he ends the regular season with 5 goals. All the assists are great, but how can you say that he should be happy with that production? He had more GWG's than that last year. So if the two of you think his goal pace is fine, we do have to disagree. As I said before, I am guessing Rau would side with me on this one and say he should have more goals at this point.

(And to clarify, my referral to faceoff percentage was to the one poster who based his sole justification for a player's (Kloos?) position on one night's faceoff percentage and making an example of using one element of a position to state Lucia was doing something wrong.)

Hammy
11-11-2013, 09:48 PM
Last year, our top line (Bjugstad, Rau, Budish) scored 50 goals in 40 games. At their current pace (a phrase I hate but have to use here), the current top line would score 55 goals. It's just that the bulk have been scored by Warning and Fasching so far. I'm sure it will even out more for Rau in time. To me, there are only so many goals that will go around for each line on a team that regularly rolls 4 lines and as long as each line pulls the requisite weight, I don't care who gets them.

HarleyMC
11-11-2013, 11:23 PM
I am fully aware that NHL is different than College. (Way to pick out one point I said and focus on it while ignoring much of my argument.) But the needs of the position are similar. You need a guy who can play both ways at both levels. Ovechkin has good size, but you won't see him at center just because he is big. If you can play center in the NHL, you can play the position in college, but not necessarily vice-versa.

And Harley knows more than all because he played. I still play hockey (sort-of - oldtimers) and have coached, along with a number of other people who post here. The discussion I was referring to was about whether Bjugs was the right choice for center last year, and despite your vast experience, I tend to side with the guy who has two NCAA championships under his belt on this one. (And I admit, I replied to your post, but at least half of what I wrote in that post was in response to dart, not you. It was just that you agreed with some of his post so I used yours to reply. So you may have misinterpreted my response. Yes Rau is a good playmaker, doesn't have the opportunity for the side of net tap in, and he does have a lot of points. I think Bjugs was the better choice last year.)

As for my contention about Rau this year, I don't argue with his shift in position affecting how he plays. He isn't cleaning up after the other two forwards. And yes, he has very good playmaking skills. That wasn't my argument. But he is a Junior and a captain, and at his current pace he ends the regular season with 5 goals. All the assists are great, but how can you say that he should be happy with that production? He had more GWG's than that last year. So if the two of you think his goal pace is fine, we do have to disagree. As I said before, I am guessing Rau would side with me on this one and say he should have more goals at this point.

(And to clarify, my referral to faceoff percentage was to the one poster who based his sole justification for a player's (Kloos?) position on one night's faceoff percentage and making an example of using one element of a position to state Lucia was doing something wrong.)

Are you talkin' to me or who now?:confused: Nevermind, drivel on.:D

goldy_331
11-12-2013, 07:16 AM
Are you talkin' to me or who now?:confused: Nevermind, drivel on.:D

I think it's your turn to drivel now, Koho had his turn...

HarleyMC
11-13-2013, 07:54 AM
I think it's your turn to drivel now, Koho had his turn...

No, no...age before beauty, go ahead goldy.;) Hey, what's happenin' with the boy this hockey season, is he gettin' better?

goldy_331
11-13-2013, 07:55 AM
No, no...age before beauty, go ahead goldy.;) Hey, what's happenin' with the boy this hockey season, is he gettin' better?

My drivel is much shorter and way less pompous than your though...:p

HarleyMC
11-13-2013, 08:05 AM
My drivel is much shorter and way less pompous than your though...:p

Yeah but your drivel always has grammatical errors like you are typing with one hand. What are you doing with the other hand?:D

HarleyMC
11-13-2013, 08:24 AM
Last year, our top line (Bjugstad, Rau, Budish) scored 50 goals in 40 games. At their current pace (a phrase I hate but have to use here), the current top line would score 55 goals. It's just that the bulk have been scored by Warning and Fasching so far. I'm sure it will even out more for Rau in time. To me, there are only so many goals that will go around for each line on a team that regularly rolls 4 lines and as long as each line pulls the requisite weight, I don't care who gets them.

It's not statistically accurate to compare the two multivariate groups (lines) when the DVs are not moderately correlated. And even if they were, correlational comparisons cannot assume causality, so there is no baseline for predictability.

goldy_331
11-13-2013, 08:30 AM
Yeah but your drivel always has grammatical errors like you are typing with one hand. What are you doing with the other hand?:D

Are you certain I always make grammatical errors? If you're being so pedantic,you had better go back to all my posts and verify that I have always made grammatical errors. If you care, I was drinking my tea with the other hand. :p

HarleyMC
11-13-2013, 11:22 AM
Are you certain I always make grammatical errors? If you're being so pedantic,you had better go back to all my posts and verify that I have always made grammatical errors. If you care, I was drinking my tea with the other hand. :p

Pedantic?? C'mon, everyone knows that no one on this site is a more flatulent driven grammar nazi than you. Correction: your drivel is always a mixture of grammatical AND punctuation errors (see above).;) Now that's two posts in a row...get the picture old man? You still haven't answered my question, how's the boy doing in hockey this season?

Hammy
11-13-2013, 05:10 PM
It's not statistically accurate to compare the two multivariate groups (lines) when the DVs are not moderately correlated. And even if they were, correlational comparisons cannot assume causality, so there is no baseline for predictability.

Given I was using it more as a baseline for a normal everyday discussion as opposed to trying to use it as a truly in-depth statistical analysis where I am trying to narrow something down to high degree of confidence like an experiment would, you might be looking at things a bit too much like a nerd boy.

Koho
11-13-2013, 10:30 PM
Given I was using it more as a baseline for a normal everyday discussion as opposed to trying to use it as a truly in-depth statistical analysis where I am trying to narrow something down to high degree of confidence like an experiment would, you might be looking at things a bit too much like a pompous nerd boy.

fixed post.

D2D
11-14-2013, 06:12 PM
Received this is an email today regarding the upcoming series with UMD:

"We hope you are enjoying this exciting start to the Gopher Men’s Hockey Season. The Gophers will battle in-state rival Minnesota Duluth the weekend of November 22-24. The first game of the series will take place on Friday, November 22 at 7:00 p.m. The date and time of the second game of the series will be determined based on the game time of the Gopher Football game vs. Wisconsin on Saturday, November 23. The Gopher Football game time will be announced Monday, November 18.

If the football game is at 11:00 a.m., the Men’s Hockey game will be at 8:00p.m. Saturday night.
If the football game is at 2:30 p.m., the Men’s Hockey game will be on Sunday, November 24 at 4:00 p.m.
We do apologize for any inconvenience this causes. Once game times have been finalized, further communication will be sent.

For the latest scheduling information, please visit www.gophersports.com.

Thank you and Go Gophers!

HarleyMC
11-15-2013, 10:38 PM
Given I was using it more as a baseline for a normal everyday discussion as opposed to trying to use it as a truly in-depth statistical analysis where I am trying to narrow something down to high degree of confidence like an experiment would, you might be looking at things a bit too much like a nerd boy.

Whatever way you want to flip your pancake is up to you, but your baseline version of "a normal everyday discussion" is still worthless and meaningless (is there an echo in here? :D). Thanks for comin' out.:D:p


fixed post.

Fascinating. Does your inner child have a name?:D