Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

[UWisco]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Wisconsin bidding on being host school for frozen fours in Milwaukee and Tampa in 2015-18 seasons.

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Player development.....I give Eaves little credit when a highly touted guy comes in and delivers. I want to see more John Mitchell/Adam Burish type development out of players like Navin, Meuer, Paape, Cavallini and McGuire.

I feel odd quoting myself but here's the summary of the first couple Eaves teams:

Just look at his early classes and their draft position....Earl (6th round), Joudrey (8th), Dowell (5th), Burish (8th), Pavelski (7th)....all guys that have skated in the NHL and some with a great deal of success. Now realize that guys drafted outside the top couple of rounds have extremely long odds of ever playing in the NHL, and that is a pretty good track record. That was just the forwards, now if you want to talk D...undrafted guys like Drewiske, Piskula, and Wozniewski from Eaves first teams skated shifts in the NHL. Or for giggles, we can talk about John Mitchell who washed out of no less then 3 USHL teams in 2 years before ending up in Madison as a mid-term greyshirt that turned into a pretty good college player and has actually managed to earn AHL paychecks.

It's way more then just Burish and Mitchell. There is 8 names off just the first couple Eaves teams that stastically had no business playing in the NHL. I think the success rate of guys drafted outside the first 2 rounds is around 12% of ever playing in the NHL. And its not just those first couple teams....Eaves has gotten guys to the next level at an unparralleled rate. Eaves has also had a better then it should be success rate with guys drafted in the first and second rounds. The proof is in the results of guys making it to the next level on Eaves development track record. He has put the most guys into the NHL during his time at UW then anyone else in college. That, while not regularly being one of the top recruiters. UW recruiting has been solid, but during Eaves tenure....I think it would be awefully hard to argue he has not generally been behind Minnesota, North Dakota, Michigan, BC, and probably even Denver in terms of recruiting class rankings.

My complaints with Eaves is not player development...it's that he has not seemingly managed to leverage an impressive trackrecord of development into a better slot in the recruiting battles (again we've been good....but rarely in the top 5) nor has he balanced out his classes.

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Sorry to maybe redirect the conversation, but as a Sat Night ticket holder, I have to say I am a little steamed that the Minnesota series is a Thur-Fri set to help the BTN. That series is always so good, it should be a mandatory Fri-Sat series. Kind of disappointing. I would expect to see even more of this in the coming years, unfortunately. Hard to have my SatNightFever when my tickets are now for a Friday night.

After the craptacular season that was last years "Saturday" season ticket package. I'm not going to complain about this year. The second package last year had a Sunday, Monday, no Minnesota (unless you wanted to pay obscene prices for an outdoor game), and you could pay seperate for a game in a delapitated building (but no attempt at trying to place you into a similar sightline or seat).

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Wisconsin bidding on being host school for frozen fours in Milwaukee and Tampa in 2015-18 seasons.

Tampa? What?

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Tampa? What?

and Tampa just had a Frozen 4

[UWisco]

Tampa? What?

I was shocked too. Baggot tweeted it.

[Badger Booster]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

and Tampa just had a Frozen 4

Why even have the illusion of a host school in a city with no college program nearby? As a Badger women's hockey fan, it really bothers me they are putting in a bid for a Tampa Frozen Four, but UW has never hosted a NCAA Women's Frozen Four (or even WCHA tournament).

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Why even have the illusion of a host school in a city with no college program nearby? As a Badger women's hockey fan, it really bothers me they are putting in a bid for a Tampa Frozen Four, but UW has never hosted a NCAA Women's Frozen Four (or even WCHA tournament).

Alabama-Huntsville hosting in Tampa made a little sense, at least because they're the closest. If UW "hosts" it in Tampa and not Milwaukee, I'd be less than thrilled.

"Tampa, the site in 2012, asked if school would help it, too." - Baggot, Twitter

[Tiggsy]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

It's not that as many people will be interested in going to this as a Friday-Saturday series, but I think it will take less of a hit than another series moving to Thursday-Friday.

True. But it feels like because fans of this series are so hardcore that they can handle being punished with a Thursday game and still come back for more. Fans for this series should be rewarded for dedication by making it easier, not screwed over because enough people are willing to sacrifice just to see the game. Sucks but unfortunately the economics of it makes sense and it's the new reality.

Why even have the illusion of a host school in a city with no college program nearby? As a Badger women's hockey fan, it really bothers me they are putting in a bid for a Tampa Frozen Four, but UW has never hosted a NCAA Women's Frozen Four (or even WCHA tournament).

Let's not forget AA hosting in Anahiem, CA. That one set the precedent for junk like this.

[goldy_331]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Tampa? What?

There are more hockey fans in Florida than in Wisconsin.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

There are more hockey fans in Florida than in Wisconsin.

Correction: There's a lot of shysters in Florida.

[icebadger]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Here's the article about bidding for the Frozen Four, also for a regional.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

I feel odd quoting myself but here's the summary of the first couple Eaves teams:

Just look at his early classes and their draft position....Earl (6th round), Joudrey (8th), Dowell (5th), Burish (8th), Pavelski (7th)....all guys that have skated in the NHL and some with a great deal of success. Now realize that guys drafted outside the top couple of rounds have extremely long odds of ever playing in the NHL, and that is a pretty good track record. That was just the forwards, now if you want to talk D...undrafted guys like Drewiske, Piskula, and Wozniewski from Eaves first teams skated shifts in the NHL. Or for giggles, we can talk about John Mitchell who washed out of no less then 3 USHL teams in 2 years before ending up in Madison as a mid-term greyshirt that turned into a pretty good college player and has actually managed to earn AHL paychecks.

It's way more then just Burish and Mitchell. There is 8 names off just the first couple Eaves teams that stastically had no business playing in the NHL. I think the success rate of guys drafted outside the first 2 rounds is around 12% of ever playing in the NHL. And its not just those first couple teams....Eaves has gotten guys to the next level at an unparralleled rate. Eaves has also had a better then it should be success rate with guys drafted in the first and second rounds. The proof is in the results of guys making it to the next level on Eaves development track record. He has put the most guys into the NHL during his time at UW then anyone else in college. That, while not regularly being one of the top recruiters. UW recruiting has been solid, but during Eaves tenure....I think it would be awefully hard to argue he has not generally been behind Minnesota, North Dakota, Michigan, BC, and probably even Denver in terms of recruiting class rankings.

My complaints with Eaves is not player development...it's that he has not seemingly managed to leverage an impressive trackrecord of development into a better slot in the recruiting battles (again we've been good....but rarely in the top 5) nor has he balanced out his classes.

In this discussion, I'm not caring about post UW play, I'm looking at their developement at UW only, and I think we're not quite on the same page there. I don't think draft position is a good indicator of Eave's development skills of college period players. Look at where these guys came from.....Earl and Dowell were with the USDP (Dowell was underdeveloped), Paves put up 69 and 52 pts in the USHL as a late bloomer, Joudrey put up 78 pts his yr before UW (I think Eaves underdeveloped him as 29 pts was his best and last year), and Burish put up 57 in the ushl. These guys should have been upper end guys in college, and a couple didn't reach that level, along with others. The fact they turned out great in the nhl is awesome, but IMO there's a lot of underdeveloped guys that didn't get better in the lean years.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Why even have the illusion of a host school in a city with no college program nearby? As a Badger women's hockey fan, it really bothers me they are putting in a bid for a Tampa Frozen Four, but UW has never hosted a NCAA Women's Frozen Four (or even WCHA tournament).

If I were the NCAA, I'd consider giving it to UW...but that's it. If you really want to submit to host in other markets, you should not also get to host locally for another decade+.

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

In this discussion, I'm not caring about post UW play, I'm looking at their developement at UW only, and I think we're not quite on the same page there. I don't think draft position is a good indicator of Eave's development skills of college period players. Look at where these guys came from.....Earl and Dowell were with the USDP (Dowell was underdeveloped), Paves put up 69 and 52 pts in the USHL as a late bloomer, Joudrey put up 78 pts his yr before UW (I think Eaves underdeveloped him as 29 pts was his best and last year), and Burish put up 57 in the ushl. These guys should have been upper end guys in college, and a couple didn't reach that level, along with others. The fact they turned out great in the nhl is awesome, but IMO there's a lot of underdeveloped guys that didn't get better in the lean years.

So you don't want to use players moving on to the next level and being successful post Eaves as a criteria to judge development success....umm...okay. Sorry, but at every level of hockey from Mite up, the developmental capabilities of a coach is judge by whether their players move on to the next level and have success.

I've heard the argument about this guy scored this many goals in high school, or this many in junior and that logic is flawed. Was a guy like Kessel not developed because he can't score 3 or 4 goals a game and he's never had a 10 goal game in the NHL like he was able to in youth hockey? Burish is not the first guy (in fact almost EVERY player has production drop off at each step up the hockey pyramid) to drop off from high school or junior production to the next level.