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chickod
04-01-2013, 09:47 AM
The middle stanza on drugs I'm not sure about... I'm willing to buy it (liberals never own up to their unintended consequences) but my knowledge on that is lacking. Leominster faired better in the transition years due to easy access to two highways... A lot of current issues relate to geography and apathy. The latter has resulted in years of mypoic views of its problems due to an unwillingness to deal w them. Being the "last stop in worcester county" should have been a call to action but the core community ignored this because it wasn't them and thus not their problem. A lot of the current issue relates to the large influx of low-no income non-English speaking Hispanics in tandem with no local industry.

Things have been compounded as the US transitioned away from manufacturing. Fitchburg was the paper mill city and had a large GE plant.

But that is probably more than people want to know. However, if you live in the less dense areas and don't send you kid to public school you can avoid this and take advantage of the snobbery effect on prices... On the other hand, access to boston for regular commuting is an issue as you really have to go through the entire town (10-15 min) to get to the highway. Another minus is proximity to events. Leominster is similar but you are already on the highway.

If I had to live in that general area... Either right off the highway near Westminster or near 13/2A in Lunenburg. I'm willing to bet the chicky residence is fairly decent w/o any local issues.

All good points. But the geography "issues" were used as a political football - this is why the hospital was moved to Leominster - the excuse was "easier access." Unfortunately, if you live in the northern part of the city (as you alluded to) or southern New Hampshire and you have a heart attack, you're out of luck because it takes 1/2 hour to get to the hospital from there. Don't kid yourself - Fitchburg didn't "fall" on its own - it was "pushed" by the Leominster people who have had an inferiority complex stemming from the Fitchburg/Leominster football game since 1896. EVERYTHING is a rivaly, including where the Chamber of Commerce, Welfare office and everything else should be located. And the non-English speaking Hispanics didn't decide to come by accident. They were lured here under the guise of "helping them" but we all know the real reason - easy votes in the pockets of liberals who have now made them a "dependent" group, and as such, will own their loyalty forever. This, of course, will only perpetuate the difficulty of their assimilation since they will have NO incentive to rise in society. You're correct about the proximity, although I will say I will NEVER live in Leominster even if you give me $1 million and a free house. And that's the way they feel about us, too. Ten years ago when we were still living at my parents' after they had passed away, we were broken into by two people who were looking for money (they stole a bunch of jewelry and fenced it) so they could get their fix at the methadone clinic (or as they call it, "Habit Management"). So I can assure you that that is accurate. Again, caving in to the drug dealers. Just make it easier for them...

Edit: That's all I'm going to say about this because I'm sure nobody wants to listen to this...

Shirtless Guy
04-01-2013, 09:48 AM
That was brutal to watch all those empty seats. I'm sure the NC$$ was certain Michigan would be in the tournament based on the last few decades. But still, even if UMich did make it, poor attendance would be an issue at the other sites, or some of them.

And I think someone mentioned it, if you want to get the neutral locals interested, lower ticket prices and start the Friday games later after most people get off of work.Too bad the schedule is driven by ESPNU and wanting the majority of games live on ESPNU, not syndicated to other outlets.

chickod
04-01-2013, 10:30 AM
Too bad the schedule is driven by ESPNU and wanting the majority of games live on ESPNU, not syndicated to other outlets.

Not to mention that most of the games are joined in progress because apparently ESPN doesn't understand that there is not a finite time limit in hockey...especially in the post-season where it seems as though every little thing is "reviewed" and the game drags out longer and longer. The only alternative is to go to WatchESPN and if you have DirecTV you're out of luck because that's not one of their "designated" outlets that is a prerequisite for signing in.

Shirtless Guy
04-01-2013, 10:52 AM
Not to mention that most of the games are joined in progress because apparently ESPN doesn't understand that there is not a finite time limit in hockey...especially in the post-season where it seems as though every little thing is "reviewed" and the game drags out longer and longer. The only alternative is to go to WatchESPN and if you have DirecTV you're out of luck because that's not one of their "designated" outlets that is a prerequisite for signing in.It's really too bad ESPN has to have this tournament. I wish they had let it go so someone else could do it and allow more syndication. The schedule is frustrating to say the least and it hurts attendance more than people want to admit.
First it was stupid to have every regional in the eastern time zone, second...1:30pm/5:00pm in Toledo isn't going to get many people compared to 4:00pm/7:30pm.
The West/Midwest regional attendance was horrible but to be fair, none of their games started after 5:45pm. Somehow the East/Northeast regionals got the better time slots and better attendance...of course that probably had something to do with none of the regionals being anywhere near a WCHA team. Who really expects anyone to show up in Grand Rapids/Toledo at 1 or 2pm for game involving teams at least 2.5 hours away?

ericredaxe
04-01-2013, 03:07 PM
Yeah........an NCAA Regional in Maine wouldn't draw flies.........


It's already built and ready to open in the fall. Did you know that Bangor, Maine is only a 4 hour drive from Boston! I thought it was like 12 hours or something............

Wasn't sure if you were serious or if it was sarcasm?

Bangor isn't all that far... but for a large cluster of teams / schools in the Boston area, Bangor is most likely an overnight stay unlike Manchester/Worcester/Providence which you can pretty easily drive home from after the game. I think the overnight stay dynamic would impact attendance.

Obviously this would not be the case if Maine were in there.

J.D.
04-01-2013, 03:55 PM
Obviously this would not be the case if Maine were in there.

A BIG if ;)

Priceless
04-01-2013, 04:53 PM
Wasn't sure if you were serious or if it was sarcasm?

I assumed it was an April Fool's joke.

The eastern regionals within a certain distance of Boston have a great track record. Worcester and Manchester both have averaged over 8000, Providence is lower but still respectable. When the eastern regionals head to places like Amherst or Albany we see attendance drop significantly. Bangor would fall flat on its face, just like those places unless Maine were in the tournament. Portland might be able to host because it is still within driving distance of most of New England and is situated on the rail line connecting Boston, the Merrimack Valley and the UNH campus in Durham. Bangor is not within driving distance and the only mass transit that services them are Concord Coach bus lines and the airport...I doubt many people in New England are interested in flying to Bangor on five days notice.

Here is a helpful diagram.
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2861/bangor1.jpg
If your city falls within the lines then your city has a chance of having decent attendance. Don't see Bangor? There's a reason for that. You also don't see Albany, Rochester or Amherst. There's a reason for that. Out west it's even simpler to diagram. Just a picture of Minneapolis/St Paul.

There are many factors that go into why certain regional locations are failing. Geography is one. Population density is another. Outrageous prices don't help. Trying a regional in a place like Bangor (or quite frankly, Portland) is a bad idea. The eastern regionals should rotate between Providence, Manchester and Worcester and the west should have a permanent home in St Paul. Where the second western regional goes is anyone's guess because there hasn't been another location out west (that the NCAA will consider) that has been a success. Maybe put one regional in Minneapolis and the other in St. Paul?

Of course it will never happen. Sites will keep bidding way too much to host, then overprice tickets to try to make their money back leading to empty seats. If Cross Insurance wants to overbid for a regional, good luck. If Maine isn't there it will be friends and family attending three games - which is the same as happens in Albany, Rochester and Amherst BTW.

CLS
04-01-2013, 05:45 PM
...There are many factors that go into why certain regional locations are failing. Geography is one. Population density is another. Outrageous prices don't help. Trying a regional in a place like Bangor (or quite frankly, Portland) is a bad idea. The eastern regionals should rotate between Providence, Manchester and Worcester and the west should have a permanent home in St Paul. Where the second western regional goes is anyone's guess because there hasn't been another location out west (that the NCAA will consider) that has been a success. Maybe put one regional in Minneapolis and the other in St. Paul?Or perhaps figure out how to to a super-regional in St. Paul, as has been suggested earlier.


Of course it will never happen. Sites will keep bidding way too much to host, then overprice tickets to try to make their money back leading to empty seats. ... But WHY do sites keep bidding way too much to host? The bidding for the western regionals baffles me. Grand Rapids has hosted many times, and I think Toledo has hosted before also. I'd think that if they lost money, they'd either not bid again or try a different strategy. The fact that they DO bid again says to me that they aren't losing money despite the sparse crowds.

One strategy lots of folks have suggested is to lower ticket prices. You'd think one of the venues would have tried that. The fact that nobody has says to me that they're restricted somehow (by the NCAA?) or they have good reason (e.g. solid marketing data) to believe that lowering the prices wouldn't improve their bottom line. If they WANT to lower their prices but can't because the NCAA won't let them, and they lose money as a result, why do they continue to bid?

GB Puck Fan
04-01-2013, 05:48 PM
St. Paul is no lock. I went to regionals there when Wisconsin & Vermont played and the lower bowl was never full.

kingdobbs
04-01-2013, 05:53 PM
Here is a helpful diagram.
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2861/bangor1.jpg
If your city falls within the lines then your city has a chance of having decent attendance. Don't see Bangor? There's a reason for that. You also don't see Albany, Rochester or Amherst. There's a reason for that. Out west it's even simpler to diagram. Just a picture of Minneapolis/St Paul.

Bridgeport might be a ****hole, but its regionals have drawn good crowds as well, its worst day (with, admittedly, its worst set-up yet, with no Yale) being 5090 last year.

Priceless
04-01-2013, 05:56 PM
But WHY do sites keep bidding way too much to host? The bidding for the western regionals baffles me. Grand Rapids has hosted many times, and I think Toledo has hosted before also. I'd think that if they lost money, they'd either not bid again or try a different strategy. The fact that they DO bid again says to me that they aren't losing money despite the sparse crowds.

One strategy lots of folks have suggested is to lower ticket prices. You'd think one of the venues would have tried that. The fact that nobody has says to me that they're restricted somehow (by the NCAA?) or they have good reason (e.g. solid marketing data) to believe that lowering the prices wouldn't improve their bottom line. If they WANT to lower their prices but can't because the NCAA won't let them, and they lose money as a result, why do they continue to bid?

My guess (and that's all it is) is that they get just enough from the diehard fans that always go to regionals to support their team that they make a small profit. Therefore, if they lowered prices and still drew only the diehards, that profit disappears. I believe there is a range of prices the NCAA mandates and the hosts have to find a price in that range. No idea if sites are at the high or low end of that scale. If the NCAA was mandating prices that were too high, I would expect the hosts to lobby the NCAA to lower them.

The other thing the hosts can do is set different price points for different parts of the arena. The best seats cost exactly the same as the the worst seats. That's a horrible business model.


St. Paul is no lock. I went to regionals there when Wisconsin & Vermont played and the lower bowl was never full.
They have the highest average attendance of any host since this regional format began. Manchester and Worcester are a close second and third.

CLS
04-01-2013, 06:07 PM
...
The other thing the hosts can do is set different price points for different parts of the arena. The best seats cost exactly the same as the the worst seats. That's a horrible business model.I'm selfishly grateful, and surprised, that they retained the single tier pricing for the FF. When I saw the new ticket distribution method permitted us to pick specific seats, I thought single tier pricing would be gone.

erikjt01
04-01-2013, 06:37 PM
ESPN is terrible with this tournament. Dave Starman has to be one of the biggest losers out there (did you see his resume they kept showing?). It's really too bad college hockey coverage for the NCAA's is money driven. It's never going to get a national following so leave it up to the local syndicates to cover the games. The East isn't broke so no need to fix it. One of the west/midwest is always going to have a poor draw. They got unlucky with Michigan not making the tournament. I remember going to the 2003 regional at Marriucci against Cornell. Place was sold out and a great atmosphere reminiscent of a regular season game. The players/fans need an atmosphere like that.

BUPhD
04-01-2013, 06:40 PM
I'm still under the impression that ESPN would drop coverage on this in a New York minute if they weren't required to carry it as part of a contract with the NCAA to carry other more lucrative championships. The reason it gets the shrift more about 'not spending significant resources on this tournament' rather than any 'let's maximize revenues' thinking.

MinniQUFan
04-01-2013, 07:22 PM
This seems like as good a place as any to ask with many who seem to have been there and done that... how hard (or easy) is it to pickup tickets for the national championship game considering it's "sold-out"? I'm talking day of or even day before? I don't think any of the four teams in Pittsburgh are going to draw huge crowds.

Priceless
04-01-2013, 07:38 PM
This seems like as good a place as any to ask with many who seem to have been there and done that... how hard (or easy) is it to pickup tickets for the national championship game considering it's "sold-out"? I'm talking day of or even day before? I don't think any of the four teams in Pittsburgh are going to draw huge crowds.
Check the availability of tickets here (http://board.uscho.com/forumdisplay.php?8-Tickets-and-Events) and that will tell you it's going to be easy to get tickets.

scoreboard
04-01-2013, 07:55 PM
This seems like as good a place as any to ask with many who seem to have been there and done that... how hard (or easy) is it to pickup tickets for the national championship game considering it's "sold-out"? I'm talking day of or even day before? I don't think any of the four teams in Pittsburgh are going to draw huge crowds.

Go to the thread Priceless linked. There appears to be minimal action on the offers. Pick the seats and negotiate with the ticket holder.
Word to the wise on those selling tickets, don't ask face value if you want to sell them. Offer a small discount and free shipping. I have done this for previous FFs when I had extra tickets and I sold them within hours of posting. Remember, this year there is no N. Dakota, Minnesota , etc... which has a huge fan base. Take a small loss and have peace of mind you sold them. If you go to Pittsburgh with tickets in hand your loss will likely be greater.

sandiegoblkbr
04-01-2013, 08:41 PM
I assumed it was an April Fool's joke.

The eastern regionals within a certain distance of Boston have a great track record. Worcester and Manchester both have averaged over 8000, Providence is lower but still respectable. When the eastern regionals head to places like Amherst or Albany we see attendance drop significantly. Bangor would fall flat on its face, just like those places unless Maine were in the tournament. Portland might be able to host because it is still within driving distance of most of New England and is situated on the rail line connecting Boston, the Merrimack Valley and the UNH campus in Durham. Bangor is not within driving distance and the only mass transit that services them are Concord Coach bus lines and the airport...I doubt many people in New England are interested in flying to Bangor on five days notice.

Here is a helpful diagram.
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2861/bangor1.jpg
If your city falls within the lines then your city has a chance of having decent attendance. Don't see Bangor? There's a reason for that. You also don't see Albany, Rochester or Amherst. There's a reason for that. Out west it's even simpler to diagram. Just a picture of Minneapolis/St Paul.

There are many factors that go into why certain regional locations are failing. Geography is one. Population density is another. Outrageous prices don't help. Trying a regional in a place like Bangor (or quite frankly, Portland) is a bad idea. The eastern regionals should rotate between Providence, Manchester and Worcester and the west should have a permanent home in St Paul. Where the second western regional goes is anyone's guess because there hasn't been another location out west (that the NCAA will consider) that has been a success. Maybe put one regional in Minneapolis and the other in St. Paul?

Of course it will never happen. Sites will keep bidding way too much to host, then overprice tickets to try to make their money back leading to empty seats. If Cross Insurance wants to overbid for a regional, good luck. If Maine isn't there it will be friends and family attending three games - which is the same as happens in Albany, Rochester and Amherst BTW.

Yeah......there's no college hockey fans in the Central/Eastern Maine area that could fill up 5,500 seats for a first ever NCAA hockey regional at a brand new facility.:rolleyes:

Biddco
04-01-2013, 09:12 PM
ESPN is terrible with this tournament. Dave Starman has to be one of the biggest losers out there (did you see his resume they kept showing?). It's really too bad college hockey coverage for the NCAA's is money driven. It's never going to get a national following so leave it up to the local syndicates to cover the games. The East isn't broke so no need to fix it. One of the west/midwest is always going to have a poor draw. They got unlucky with Michigan not making the tournament. I remember going to the 2003 regional at Marriucci against Cornell. Place was sold out and a great atmosphere reminiscent of a regular season game. The players/fans need an atmosphere like that.Weak resume or not he knows college hockey. He blows Melrose out of the water (which admittedly isn't hard).

Slap Shot
04-01-2013, 09:19 PM
Sure attendance sucked, but at least there was bracket integrity. :rolleyes: