The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

This ain't bouncy ball. There's 20 hockey players that dress for each game, plus the coaches, training staff, equipment staff AND ALL THE EQUIPMENT. Is the travel party for basketball teams even 10 people (players, coaches, trainer)? And I don't know about other schools, but here in Bowling Green, the men's and women's basketball teams are the only ones who use the basketball arena. The Ice Arena is used by many members of the community for more than just college hockey.

Do you think NCAA athletes get a room to themselves? Do you think the arena there at BG is going to flinch at holding an extra weekend open because it might impact an "open skate" or a "beer league" game? Do you think the open skate or beer league game wouldn't easily go forward when BG is eliminated in the first round anyway? None of your points are valid.

Schools try to schedule the maximum number of games each season. The two week playoff schedule the CCHA has used the last few years has resulted in many mid-week games. BG played games with both Michigan and Notre Dame this season on Tuesdays (BG also had a bye week). Both those schools are within reasonable driving distance for a single game. No schools in the WCHA are close enough for this. So under your proposal, teams would have to give up a non-conference series, possibly a home one, just to fit the games into the season.

You need to look at the composite schedule. When you do you'll see these things called "bye weeks". Nobody has to give up any home non-conference games. And every non-Alaskan team will get to play a minimum of 36 regular season home games a season which is two over and above the 34 game limit.

And, no offense, but if the Championship game is to take place at one of the Alaska schools, how many people would actually show up? And would any money be saved flying an entire team there for one game?

Either arena in Alaska would be sold-out for a conference championship game. I would expect that would be the case at every school in the league but I wouldn't guarantee it. In Anchorage I would guarantee it. A winning team there will mean a fuller barn. It's a horrible bandwagon hockey town but it is definitely a hockey town. The money generated by the increased attendence from all the home series would be easily offset the expense of flying to WHEREVER the championship game is played. Figure it out yourself. It isn't difficult. A central conference tournament is going to be lucky to put a total of 15,000 butts in the seats. 5 games in any combination of home arenas will be a minimum of 20,000 butts in seats. All playoff revenue is shared. You don't have to rent the expensive Xcel or the Van Andel plus the other costs the league incurs surrounding putting on the tournament.

The home series alternative makes more money. End of story.

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

You are clearly delusional, probably an unwitting victim of Seasonal Affective Disorder or Sunlight Deprivation.
I'm not going to argue with you, it just wouldn't be fair.

No. I've presented reasonable options and clearly addressed your unreasoned objections which are now followed by this ad hominem.

[MavHockey14]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

Just block the guy so you don't have to read any of it. Sheesh.

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

How about you take a look at attendance figures while you're at it. You're not going to pack these barns. We've discussed capacity in a prior thread. There aren't any NoDak's or Minnesota's in this league where they can pack a home rink with at least 10k fans. You're looking at drawing 2k if you're lucky.

I think the logistics have been more than explained about building rentals, flights, and hotel rooms; and you continue to conveniently ignore them arguing that your numbers are better. Your numbers are bullsh*t.


What hasn't been mentioned is the corporate sponsorship. Amway may be kicking in a good chunk to have the WCHA rent Van Andel for a weekend. I have no clue even IF there is corporate sponsorship lined up or in the works. Either way, the opportunity to have a big name corporate sponsor like Red Baron, Amway, Wells Fargo, Fifth Third, etc. are much easier to attract to a venue with corporate suites and an established relationship. It's MUCH harder to convince these sponsors to promote the sport in a podunk down on the shores of Lake Superior, or located just off a godforsaken snow mobile trail in the interior of Alaska.


From my limited experiences in watching these events, money drives them, and no matter how few fans are in the seats, the right levels of corporate sponsorship always make it a profitable event. If the CCHA was hemorrhaging money, they would have bailed years ago on JLA and moved elsewhere. Same with the WCHA.


This isn't the '80's NCAA. No more home ice championships for league titles. Get over it. Cut the cord. Move on.

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

Oh, and Donald, these "bye weeks" you keep yammering about? They're mandated breaks required to be taken by the NCAA. How about you read the *ing NCAA handbook instead of masturbating to some fictional UAA/UA_ WCHA Championship game played on the Mystery Alaska ice rink?

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

How about you take a look at attendance figures while you're at it. You're not going to pack these barns. We've discussed capacity in a prior thread. There aren't any NoDak's or Minnesota's in this league where they can pack a home rink with at least 10k fans. You're looking at drawing 2k if you're lucky.

Are you really saying that a semi-playoff series in the nWCHA is going to draw less attendance than a regular season game?
2011-12 Regular Season average attendance numbers for every rink:
Mankato = 3655/4832
UAH = 3268*/6800
Bemidji = 3225/4350
MTU = 3078/4200
NMU = 2845/3800
UAF = 2820/4595
UAA = 2729/6206
BGSU = 2518/5000
Ferris = 2128/2457
LSSU = 2044/3373

Pick any two rinks -- project attendance numbers for two 2 game home semi-finals series and then imagine a 1 game final game. Add up the attendance. Make your case that attendance isn't higher than what everyone in this thread was projecting for a tourny at Van Andel/Xcel. I'll pick the two smallest rinks.

LSSU hosts Team A ... assume 2500 for both games (yes .... higher than this years regular season average. Any team that can't put more fans into it's home rink for a semi-final playoff series shouldn't be in the league).
Ferris hosts Team B ... assume 2250 for both games
Ferris hosts championship ... assume 2250 for single game

That's 11,750 fans in what I would call the worst case scenario for WCHA attendance under my proposal. A reasoned estimate from another poster in this thread projects total tournament attendance at the Xcel or Van Andel at about 12,000. My original assertion used 16,000 total attendance. If both LSSU and Ferris Wheel can pack their barns for a semi-final series and a championship game then the total would be 14,000+. Again, this is a worst case scenario using the two smallest rinks. Running the same numbers for Mankato and Bemidji results in a low attendance figure of 19325 and a high of 22714.

Want to dispute my attendance figures. Please do. Estimate the attendance at the Xcel and Van Andel rinks compare to your own estimates of attendance at semi-final and championship home dates. That's the extent of my original assertion. I answered the other valid questions/issues raised as a result of my assertion. Nothing so far has changed my view that the idea of trying to continue the "Final Five" ideology is a mistake. There is no significant traveling fanbase amongst the current membership to fill up the Xcel or Van Andel. An Xcel tournament that includes Bemidji and Mankato might not do too badly in term of attendance. One that includes UAF, LSSU, UAH and BGSU will be empty. How about a tourney at Van Andel that includes Bemidji, Mankato, UAA and BGSU?

It's not unreasonable by any measure to explore a home-series semis/championship set-up.

[The Rube]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

Ladies and Gents, I present uaafanblog's state of mind right now:

[BG_Falcons]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

Are you really saying that a semi-playoff series in the nWCHA is going to draw less attendance than a regular season game?
2011-12 Regular Season average attendance numbers for every rink:
Mankato = 3655/4832
UAH = 3268*/6800
Bemidji = 3225/4350
MTU = 3078/4200
NMU = 2845/3800
UAF = 2820/4595
UAA = 2729/6206
BGSU = 2518/5000
Ferris = 2128/2457
LSSU = 2044/3373

Pick any two rinks -- project attendance numbers for two 2 game home semi-finals series and then imagine a 1 game final game. Add up the attendance. Make your case that attendance isn't higher than what everyone in this thread was projecting for a tourny at Van Andel/Xcel. I'll pick the two smallest rinks.

LSSU hosts Team A ... assume 2500 for both games (yes .... higher than this years regular season average. Any team that can't put more fans into it's home rink for a semi-final playoff series shouldn't be in the league).
Ferris hosts Team B ... assume 2250 for both games
Ferris hosts championship ... assume 2250 for single game

That's 11,750 fans in what I would call the worst case scenario for WCHA attendance under my proposal. A reasoned estimate from another poster in this thread projects total tournament attendance at the Xcel or Van Andel at about 12,000. My original assertion used 16,000 total attendance. If both LSSU and Ferris Wheel can pack their barns for a semi-final series and a championship game then the total would be 14,000+. Again, this is a worst case scenario using the two smallest rinks. Running the same numbers for Mankato and Bemidji results in a low attendance figure of 19325 and a high of 22714.

Want to dispute my attendance figures. Please do. Estimate the attendance at the Xcel and Van Andel rinks compare to your own estimates of attendance at semi-final and championship home dates. That's the extent of my original assertion. I answered the other valid questions/issues raised as a result of my assertion. Nothing so far has changed my view that the idea of trying to continue the "Final Five" ideology is a mistake. There is no significant traveling fanbase amongst the current membership to fill up the Xcel or Van Andel. An Xcel tournament that includes Bemidji and Mankato might not do too badly in term of attendance. One that includes UAF, LSSU, UAH and BGSU will be empty. How about a tourney at Van Andel that includes Bemidji, Mankato, UAA and BGSU?

It's not unreasonable by any measure to explore a home-series semis/championship set-up.

I wouldn't disregard the traveling BG fan base for a semi/championship at a neutral (close site). When BG made the final 4 in the CCHA tourney last year they sold out the entire school allotment and where pretty close to out drawing Michigan at the Joe for the game, and definitely out drew the other 2 schools there. (Western and Miami) but the chance of that happening again would only work at maybe the Grand Rapids site and because BG constantly will fan bus people to wherever a team plays. (They sent a bus to NC for the Women's sweet 16, the bowl game in DC this year) benefits of a DI budget and being located next to 2 major highways I guess...also I would love to know your experience in dealing with college athletics and where you get your numbers from sometimes to come up with your "facts."

[Jimjamesak]

Ladies and Gents, I present uaafanblog's state of mind right now:

And people wonder why the rest of the UAA fanbase here is disassociating themselves from him.

[aparch]

Are you really saying that a semi-playoff series in the nWCHA is going to draw less attendance than a regular season game?

Yep. I am. And I think the actual numbers from the USCHO boxscores will backup my theory.

How convenient you ignored the sponsorship aspect. Or just how the WCHA is going to be able to book flights and hotel rooms and rink times for these teams.

There is a lot more logisitics, and I'd venture that a host school was discussed, but sponsorship and money likely kept a neutral site the best option.

[mtu_huskies]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

Did the WCHA playoff tournament announcement offer any info on future TV coverage of the event?

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

Did the WCHA playoff tournament announcement offer any info on future TV coverage of the event?

There lies another aspect of where to play the tournament. To get TV coverage, whichever station is going to produce wants to know in advance where it is going to be. Saves them a lot of time from having to throw logistics of the broadcasts together on short notice. Also, I know the Xcel is, and I am assuming Van Andel is as well, already "wired" for broadcasting. No running cables all over the arena, they can just plug in and go.

It was always kind of fun watching CBS Sports (College Sports at that time) set up for broadcasting the CHA Championship game. As soon as that last semifinal was done, their crew was into the arena running spools of wire all over the place, setting up camera platforms and everything else that goes into the production. Having a "wired" arena is going to make that much easier on a TV Production crew.

[purpleinnebraska]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

Yep. I am. And I think the actual numbers from the USCHO boxscores will backup my theory.

How convenient you ignored the sponsorship aspect. Or just how the WCHA is going to be able to book flights and hotel rooms and rink times for these teams.

There is a lot more logisitics, and I'd venture that a host school was discussed, but sponsorship and money likely kept a neutral site the best option.

Agreed. The Mankato experience was that the playoffs drew more than 1000 less per game than the regular season average. The only comparably small crowd we had in the last 4 months was for a non-conference game when the students were on Christmas break AND the Vikings-Packers playoff game was the same night. And we STILL drew fewer than that for our first home playoff series in 5 years. Why? No idea, but I see no facts to support that home-ice conference tourneys are going to be well attended.

Let's just admit it - the Final Five was a really cool, unique event, with great atmosphere and phenomenal attendance. We're not going to duplicate it. If something grows organically that somewhat approaches that level, great. But the best minds in the conference can't plot anything that will match it, unless they stumble on it accidentally.

[MavsFan]

Re: The New WCHA 3, Revenge of the Sieve (2013-14)

Agreed. The Mankato experience was that the playoffs drew more than 1000 less per game than the regular season average. The only comparably small crowd we had in the last 4 months was for a non-conference game when the students were on Christmas break AND the Vikings-Packers playoff game was the same night. And we STILL drew fewer than that for our first home playoff series in 5 years. Why? No idea, but I see no facts to support that home-ice conference tourneys are going to be well attended.

Certainly a part of it was that it was spring break.

[MavHockey14]

Certainly a part of it was that it was spring break.

And the fact that they didn't give students free tickets have most of them no incentive to come back, either.