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  • #76
    Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

    A lot of this talk about AIC, Bentley and Sacred Heart all being doormats of the AHA is nonsense too. In 9 years Sacred Heart has finished in the top half 6 times including 2 second place finishes. Only AIC has consistently been at or near the bottom yet recently they became much more competitive in league games. I think the biggest problem for the AHA is getting fans in the seats and even getting students in for free is a problem. The schools have got to promote the fact that they are playing at a high level with only about 50 other colleges. These games should be major athletic events at these schools. Do giveaways, run promotions and make them something that the locals and students want to be a part of. Putting some effort and money into this would more than pay for itself with pride and activity greatly increased and the possibility of greater revenue as well. If they don't desire to do this as part of the Division 1 landscape then they should consider giving it up.

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    • #77
      Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

      Originally posted by BC/HE View Post
      A lot of this talk about AIC, Bentley and Sacred Heart all being doormats of the AHA is nonsense too. In 9 years Sacred Heart has finished in the top half 6 times including 2 second place finishes. Only AIC has consistently been at or near the bottom yet recently they became much more competitive in league games. I think the biggest problem for the AHA is getting fans in the seats and even getting students in for free is a problem. The schools have got to promote the fact that they are playing at a high level with only about 50 other colleges. These games should be major athletic events at these schools. Do giveaways, run promotions and make them something that the locals and students want to be a part of. Putting some effort and money into this would more than pay for itself with pride and activity greatly increased and the possibility of greater revenue as well. If they don't desire to do this as part of the Division 1 landscape then they should consider giving it up.
      In regards to my earlier post about RIT, I see them dipping here and there simply because the AHA overall is getting better while they are clearly going to get worse next year. They lose too many key parts, while Niagara, Bentley, and Holy Cross all retain their key parts and will get better. Even Air Force dipped down and finished 4th one year, and that came after dominating the league when they came in. There was that one year when Air Force had all their CHA parts, were clearly a strong western team, opened up the year 16-0-0, and were ranked until the flat lined midseason that year.

      In terms of the conference right now, as I mentioned before, Bentley, AIC, and SHU get bad raps because of simply their rink and inability to put people in the seats. AIC and SHU are clearly in a bad boat of this, given their rinks location and general blase attitude. But SHU drew very well to Bentley for Game 3 of teh playoffs, including their pep band. AIC has an issue, but they've been getting more competitive the last few years in AHA games, and even though attendance isn't there, they've consistently been a D1 program. I think their first season was in 1948-1949, and they've been a D1 program the whole team. Does this mean they'll ever bee (hehe...get it? "bee") good? I don't hold that crystal ball, but the school has been committed to them as a D1 program in the past. Their coach is a great guy, and he's been building the program for a while. They haven't hit double-digit wins in 10 years, but they're ALWAYS going to steal games. I wouldn't put it past them, with the right recruiting, to become a lot better.

      As for those who insinuate Bentley isn't committed, remember the following. 1) Bentley is a D2 program, as previously noted. 2) Bentley was extremely committed to their D1 status and program, but the bottom fell out on the level of their commitment due to the economy crashing. The school endowment took a beating, as most did, when the economy went to the toilet, and they were forced to divert funding usually earmarked for their D1 program to other, more academically essential programs. It was also on the heels of a massive renovation of their football field and basketball/multi-purpose center, which arguably was more essential to student life (if you see it, you'll know it's a student center with cafe, offices, and fitness center.

      Bentley needed to keep the hockey team at a state where 4-5 years ago, they were ready to truly commit to the program and couldn't. They needed to remain that way until the school's finances rebounded. As of 2011-2012, they were rebounding, and the commitment is showing. Attendance at Bentley isn't going to match RIT or Air Force; we simply don't have the capacity. But Bentley sold out games down the stretch against Holy Cross, and they sold out their game against Clarkson. They've built a loyal, rabid fan base on campus thanks, in no small part, to a guerilla marketing scheme by the coach, players, and team affiliates. They've come miles from where they were in 2009 when they last made the AHA Semifinals. They get fan buses to games, and they're starting to draw. They've made the commitment to market the team and run promotions to get people to the rink. Does that translate to the same numbers as other schools? Not even remotely, especially during the semester break when students are home; Bentley is not drawing the same numbers on name/rink/draw alone like BC/BU will on semester breaks. But it's hard to face the reality that Bentley is growing, slowly but surely, and as long as the economy doesn't completely crap the bed again, they'll be able to commit like they were intending five years ago.

      As I mentioned before, before the league can commit to bringing in UAH or others, they need to commit to themselves. And I think they'll always have the numbers to do that in the east, with SHU (D1 program), Holy Cross (D1 program), Army, Bentley, and, yes, even AIC.

      We've all forgotten about HC, who is a lucrative D1 athletics program committed to marketing their team properly. They've done a great job becoming a strong mid-major contender in all their sports. They legitimately don't need Hockey East in order to be successful, and I think they're perfectly happy in AHA, even though they were, indeed, investigating leaving. Happy where they are.....but they'd be remissed if they didn't at least look.
      Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

      STAY UP #94 #58

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      • #78
        Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

        Originally posted by Humanoid View Post
        AIC has an issue, but they've been getting more competitive the last few years in AHA games, and even though attendance isn't there, they've consistently been a D1 program. I think their first season was in 1948-1949, and they've been a D1 program the whole team. .
        AIC has had a team since 1948-49, but did not go DI until 1998-99. They are a DII school that competes in the Northeast-10 in all other sports, just like Bentley, Merrimack, and Lowell.
        Charter Member of darin's "UML Seven"

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        • #79
          Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

          Originally posted by Humanoid View Post
          We've all forgotten about HC, who is a lucrative D1 athletics program committed to marketing their team properly. They've done a great job becoming a strong mid-major contender in all their sports. They legitimately don't need Hockey East in order to be successful, and I think they're perfectly happy in AHA, even though they were, indeed, investigating leaving. Happy where they are.....but they'd be remissed if they didn't at least look.
          About time someone mentions them.

          I believe Holy Cross was one of the candidates when Quinnipiac left AHA for the ECAC, but there were some issues they wouldn't be able to fix, so they were given a no.

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          • #80
            Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

            Originally posted by Humanoid View Post
            In regards to my earlier post about RIT, I see them dipping here and there simply because the AHA overall is getting better while they are clearly going to get worse next year. They lose too many key parts, while Niagara, Bentley, and Holy Cross all retain their key parts and will get better. Even Air Force dipped down and finished 4th one year, and that came after dominating the league when they came in. There was that one year when Air Force had all their CHA parts, were clearly a strong western team, opened up the year 16-0-0, and were ranked until the flat lined midseason that year.
            I love comments like that, RIT lost a good size class, but the majority of it was role players. Shane Madolora is the biggest lost and I know outside of Rochester no one knows Watson or Ruby but they both showed plenty of upside. The two pushing each other should leave RIT in fine shape in net. Cameron Burt gave RIT 4 good years but his production declined. RIT best player all year was Mike Colavecchia and he on his way back. Garbowsky and McGowan need to avoid sophomore slips. Look for a surge from Adam Mitchell and Ben Lynch. Bryan Potts was red hot before he was lost to injury. Jeff Smith has gotten nothing but better game in and game out. And despite complaints from yours truly about wanting to see him be more of a monster; Adam Hartley found his way up the score sheet for the Tigers this year.

            Add in a very good freshman class which includes a very rare AHA player who is an NHL Draft pick and there I plenty to look forward to for Tigers fan. This is a team that not only has been doing this for years losing guys like Simon Lambert. They also lost guys a year early like Brenner & Pinizzotto, and a guy 3 years early in Chris Tanev. They still only have Air Force to compete in term of home ice advantage. That Air Force team that finished forth was one goal away from being in the AHA Championship game. Also that Air Force that started on fire was run down by an RIT team that was just as hot in the second half as the Falcons where in the first half, and that RIT team was very similar at the start of the year to the team the Tigers have coming back next year...

            So go ahead expect less from RIT, but you’ve been warned…
            Course, That's Just my Opinion, I Could Be Wrong.

            Thomas M. Naeger
            The Mule
            Rochester Institute of Technology '03


            "Good Judgment comes from experience, experience comes from Bad Judgment"

            "If we play our game, there's pretty much no chance they have of beating us. We know what we have to do. It's just a matter of going out and doing it." - Brent Alexin

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            • #81
              Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

              Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
              I'm not sure I'd say "THE class of the AHA"... Scoreboard: AFA - 5 Championships; RIT - 1 Championship. Definitely amongst the class of the AHA with all the regular season success and the one FF appearance. But in a one-bid league, the Tigers have lost far more than they've won when it matters the most. I have to give the nod to Air Force on that one (sadly).
              This is how I sum it up. RIT banged hard on the door after shocking the AHA and taking the regular season title their first year. For the next two, RIT would be right at the front but learned how difficult one game playoff can be. They blow the door wide open all the way to the Frozen Four and was clearly the class of the league. With respect to Air Force and all the great thing they did for the league, RIT did more that season for the AHA then Air Force did even with the NCAA Tournament wins the Falcons had.

              Next year I felt Air Force stole back the top spot by a hair by riding Torfs big game in the AHA finals but Air Force being unable to advance from the first round despite a good effort still left RIT and Air Force at a virtual tie going into this past year. Air Force sure blow that away with a dominating performance in this year’s AHA finals. RIT now clearly has something to prove…
              Course, That's Just my Opinion, I Could Be Wrong.

              Thomas M. Naeger
              The Mule
              Rochester Institute of Technology '03


              "Good Judgment comes from experience, experience comes from Bad Judgment"

              "If we play our game, there's pretty much no chance they have of beating us. We know what we have to do. It's just a matter of going out and doing it." - Brent Alexin

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              • #82
                Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

                Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                About time someone mentions them.

                I believe Holy Cross was one of the candidates when Quinnipiac left AHA for the ECAC, but there were some issues they wouldn't be able to fix, so they were given a no.
                It's incredibly hard to think that Holy Cross wouldn't look at improving the state of their program since they are a big-time D1 program in comparison to the rest of their eastern pod brethren. Even though they're in a low-level D1 conference, HC is still a big deal in Massachusetts because of reputation. Their basketball team and football team are decent draws, and the baseball team has had runs of success. They have lacrosse.

                I think it's hard for Holy Cross to justify keeping their hockey team under a glass ceiling when they can look up and see basketball, football, etc. That especially rings true since Holy Cross typically views itself on the same level as Boston College in some regards (football notwithstanding). It's extremely hard for HC to justify remaining in Atlantic Hockey forever without ensuring the program hits a ceiling in its rise. Their programs and reputation alone are bigger than most of the rest of the conference in that respect (at least in their own eyes).

                That said, they're perfectly happy in AHA, and it's a good deal at current. So, like I said, they are going to investigate leaving, but they'll leave only if it's the right fit. ECAC would've been a fantastic fit for them. Hockey east - I don't think that's as much a good fit.
                Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

                STAY UP #94 #58

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                • #83
                  Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

                  Originally posted by Humanoid View Post
                  It's incredibly hard to think that Holy Cross wouldn't look at improving the state of their program since they are a big-time D1 program in comparison to the rest of their eastern pod brethren.
                  Well they can start by improving their results in-conference (last season was a good step forward). The team is competitive but hasn't been dominant since beating Minnesota all those years ago (with four losing seasons in the last six), and they've been to the BCA only once. Couple that with their women's team languishing and playing a D-III schedule, and it seems clear to me hockey isn't a huge priority for them.

                  One could say the same about UConn, but they've given notice to Hockey East that they're ready to step up their game. I suppose HC might do the same if a conference came calling, but they have a long way to go before they start hitting any AHA "glass ceiling".


                  Powers &8^]

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                  • #84
                    Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

                    Originally posted by Humanoid View Post
                    Their programs and reputation alone are bigger than most of the rest of the conference in that respect (at least in their own eyes).
                    "In their own eyes." HC has a history of thinking they are so much better than they are. If they were twice as good as they actually are, they'd be half as good as they think they are. I remember how they used to run their institutional mouth back in the day about their football record against the Ivies. Of course, they used the Ivies as a benchmark since that is what they claim to be academically. They changed leagues, lost their scholarships, and immediately started getting consistently pounded by the Ivies. I still laugh.
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                    • #85
                      Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

                      Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                      Well they can start by improving their results in-conference (last season was a good step forward). The team is competitive but hasn't been dominant since beating Minnesota all those years ago (with four losing seasons in the last six), and they've been to the BCA only once. Couple that with their women's team languishing and playing a D-III schedule, and it seems clear to me hockey isn't a huge priority for them.

                      One could say the same about UConn, but they've given notice to Hockey East that they're ready to step up their game. I suppose HC might do the same if a conference came calling, but they have a long way to go before they start hitting any AHA "glass ceiling".


                      Powers &8^]
                      I think Humanoid overstates how Holy Cross sees its athletic programs to a degree, and its hockey program in particular. I'd say their model is much more the Ivy league for football, basketball and other sports. As far as hockey goes, they'd probably be willing to upgrade somewhat to play in the ECAC which in some ways would be a better fit for them, but as I remember, womens hockey was the thing that kept them out of the ECAC discussions last time. They are generally pretty satisfied with where they are on the ice, though. AHA allows them to keep the sport, but they can keep the costs under control and if another ECAC invitation comes along, they'll be in position to make a sound decision. They'd love to play Harvard and Dartmouth a few times a year as well as Patriot League oppnent Colgate. I really think that while they might have had discussions with Hockey East, you almost have to at least meet with them if they call, it wouldn't have been a good match for either party. People think of Holy Cross as BC's "sister school" to some extent, but in fact, it is much closer in size and philosphy to schools like Union and some of the NESCAC schools...smaller liberal arts colleges. Indeed if you look at their marketing, that is they are now trying to get the same type of students as might choose Tufts or Connecticut College or Wesleyan.

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                      • #86
                        Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

                        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                        About time someone mentions them.

                        I believe Holy Cross was one of the candidates when Quinnipiac left AHA for the ECAC, but there were some issues they wouldn't be able to fix, so they were given a no.
                        The only issue I am aware of was upgrading the women's team to Division I. If they had done that, they were in as their academics blew Q's out of the forest.
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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by joecct View Post
                          The only issue I am aware of was upgrading the women's team to Division I. If they had done that, they were in as their academics blew Q's out of the forest.
                          As much as I like Hart Rink, I do not think it is feasible to increase seating, so my guess is that Quinnipiac won that contest for their ECAC bid. My guess is that the same seating issue was a factor for UConn's HE bid, with the option to play home games in Hartford until they build something on campus?

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                          • #88
                            Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

                            Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                            As much as I like Hart Rink, I do not think it is feasible to increase seating, so my guess is that Quinnipiac won that contest for their ECAC bid. My guess is that the same seating issue was a factor for UConn's HE bid, with the option to play home games in Hartford until they build something on campus?

                            Holy Cross is 2 miles away(walkable from campus or an easy shuttle bus ride that could be established for games) from the DCU Center, the site of numerous NCAA tournament games(almost every other year) compared to a 25 mile drive from Storrs to Hartford. There could be a case for Holy Cross that is far better than UConn's in that respect.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Atlantic Hockey Future

                              Good point on DCU proximity to HC, so probably $$ and scholarship issue?

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by BC/HE View Post
                                Holy Cross is 2 miles away(walkable from campus or an easy shuttle bus ride that could be established for games) from the DCU Center, the site of numerous NCAA tournament games(almost every other year) compared to a 25 mile drive from Storrs to Hartford. There could be a case for Holy Cross that is far better than UConn's in that respect.
                                The distance is only a small part of the issue. Holy Cross is a small private school with a limited local fan base or interaction with community. HC students rarely venture downtown for anything that doesn't involve alcohol. Similarly, community members rarely have reason to venture onto the HC campus.. Although having the minor league baseball team may have reduced somewhat the perceived isolation and increased community connection to HC's campus on the hill, it's far different from the connection that comes from being State U with an open campus and frequent large crowds for big-time college sports. UConn soccer probably outdraws any Holy Cross team outside of football. Also, there is an established tradition for UConn athletics in the Hartford area that doesn't exist for HC at the DCU Center.

                                Frankly, I don't think the XL Center is an appropriate long term choice for an entire hockey schedule either. Ideally they'd have an on-campus rink for most games and might play a handful of top opponents in Hartford, but it is a far better choice than having HC play in downtown Worcester. To the extent that HC could draw, it's most likely that it would be for a few popular opponents (BC, BU, UNH, etc.) with the majority rooting for the road team.
                                Last edited by rpi82; 06-13-2012, 07:30 AM.

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