The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

[Rtn2GoldCountry]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Of course, I'm not sure that a neutral site would bring in all that many more fans than an on campus tourney. If I were making the decision, I would have best of 3 series all the way through the tournament, with the best seed getting home ice. Given that, only the top 8 teams would make the tournament.

If the nWCHA were to switch to this post-season format, do you think we would see other conferences try to expand their tournaments to try and increase profits? I don't know how other conferences would do the 2 out of 3 the whole way through and still invite the final 4 to a neutral site like Joe Louis Arena. Maybe they would have to play 2 out of 3 at home until the final 2 teams, instead of the final 4 like most leagues currently do.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

If the nWCHA were to switch to this post-season format, do you think we would see other conferences try to expand their tournaments to try and increase profits? I don't know how other conferences would do the 2 out of 3 the whole way through and still invite the final 4 to a neutral site like Joe Louis Arena. Maybe they would have to play 2 out of 3 at home until the final 2 teams, instead of the final 4 like most leagues currently do.

Why do we care about the other leagues? This is discussion about the 2013-14 WCHA.

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

You cannot compare an NCAA Regional to conference tournament, it is not apples to apples. First, the regional pulls teams from all over the country and you have no idea which regional you're going to until the very end, 2nd ncaa regionals do not allow alcohol sales. I guarantee a conference tournament at the Resch would do better than a regional not involving Wisconsin, because everyone in the WCHA knows where it is ahead of time and can plan according, including buying flights early, booking hotels early, planning to tailgate ahead of time...its an extremely different situation.

Agree fully, apples vs alternators argument. That being said I still think a best a three all the way through is still the best to start the league. Each program needs to build home attendance first. Unless there really is a belief that the $'s are there for a neutral site.

I believe they could sell alcohol if it was set up outside the Resch center as they did in Tampa. In the adjoining building or literally outside but that might be a little chillyor not.

[manurespreader]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Good points, but it seems to me that from a competitive standpoint a neutral site would be preferable. The question is if it can be done without losing money. I don't think it has to be a big profit maker, but losing money would not be good. So my question would be, if it were at the Resch, starting in 2016, what would the breakeven attendance be and do we think we can meet that.?

Second assuming that is the direction they want to go, what are they going to do in the interim.Honestly I think all the teams will be surprised by how well they do attendance wise, but also surprised at how tough the travel is.

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Agree fully, apples vs alternators argument. That being said I still think a best a three all the way through is still the best to start the league. Each program needs to build home attendance first. Unless there really is a belief that the $'s are there for a neutral site.

I believe they could sell alcohol if it was set up outside the Resch center as they did in Tampa. In the adjoining building or literally outside but that might be a little chillyor not.

Too chilly to drink beer in Green Bay? Never! We do it quite often in single digit temps! It's called tailgating!

[UpNorthHockey]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

I understand the desirability of starting a new tradition/destination-event for the nWCHA post season and I agree that the NCAA regionals aren't necessarily indicative of what an nWCHA tourney might pull in. However, I still find it hard to believe that the nWCHA schools are going to muster a travel-base of more than a few hundred fans each. We've all seen how the nWCHA schools travel....the numbers aren't huge. I would think we might need around 4000 fans at the Resch to make it do-able. It will be a bit of a risk if nWCHA books it and then falls way short.

That said, I don't think regular season numbers are a good indicator of how playoff attendence might be at the school arenas. I think any school that makes the playoffs will fill their barn....maybe it gives the smaller arenas incentive to increase seating.

I'd love to be proven wrong about this and see us fill the Resch or some other neutral venue. I'm just not sure that I've ever seen any of the nWCHA schools generate that kind of crowd, even when they've made the final five. The audience has always been mostly MN, WI, ND with a smattering of CC and DU.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

That said, I don't think regular season numbers are a good indicator of how playoff attendence might be at the school arenas. I think any school that makes the playoffs will fill their barn....maybe it gives the smaller arenas incentive to increase seating.

Are we sure?

2011-2012 Home Playoff Attendance (of teams that hosted this past season)
Ferris State - 1,696 avg. (against future nWCHA team Bowling Green) about 250 less than the Regular Season Average.
NMU - 1,440 avg. (against future nWCHA team Bowling Green) about 1500 less than the Regular Season Average.
LSSU - 1,250 avg. (against future nWCHA team Alaska) about 900 less than the Regular Season Average.

Tech, Bemidji, Mankato, UAA, Alaska, and Bowling Green did not host playoff series in 2011-2012.

Given that tournament time happens to fall around Spring Break, it is usually the case that playoff attendance drops (also, the pure fact that often fans don't know until a week or two before hand if they will have home ice leads to many not planning on going to these games). FWIW, it is the case across the board in college hockey that playoff attendance is less than regular season attendance. It's nice to think that fans will fill their home rinks for the playoffs, but the facts tend to speak otherwise.

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Too chilly to drink beer in Green Bay? Never! We do it quite often in single digit temps! It's called tailgating!

Well I know that, I can lay claim to tailgating @ -100 F with wind chill It's only difficult from the point of needing a chiseling type device to break through the layer of ice.

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

No. Just NO to campus site tournament locations.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Since Green Bay is out for the near future, and the idea of campus sites seems too small-scale (for cripes sake, even the Atlantic league plays their Final 4 at 11,200-seat Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, NY and I doubt many people show up when RIT isn't playing), I really think Duluth should be in consideration for at least one of the first 2-3 years, if they are interested and it can be worked out schedule-wise. Amsoil is owned by the city, so this notion that it's somehow "supporting the NCHC" doesn't bother me.

[darker98]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

I really think Duluth should be in consideration for at least one of the first 2-3 years, if they are interested and it can be worked out schedule-wise. Amsoil is owned by the city, so this notion that it's somehow "supporting the NCHC" doesn't bother me.

The NCHC is in the the Goofers (B1G) back yard. Just be close for fans.

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Since Green Bay is out for the near future, and the idea of campus sites seems too small-scale (for cripes sake, even the Atlantic league plays their Final 4 at 11,200-seat Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, NY and I doubt many people show up when RIT isn't playing), I really think Duluth should be in consideration for at least one of the first 2-3 years, if they are interested and it can be worked out schedule-wise. Amsoil is owned by the city, so this notion that it's somehow "supporting the NCHC" doesn't bother me.

Amsoil may be city owned but Bulldogs is stuffed everywhere. They can play at the DEC that's almost cleared out. Cloquet is an option.

It's not an issue of small scale it's an issue of marketing, growing league and fan interest. Best 2 of 3 the entire way thru, it's different, makes sense, worth a try. Never made sense to run a 2 of 3 at the higher seed rink then go to a tournament for a one game showdown. Well the money made sense but that was due to the location. Several teams nearby and they are the ones that filled 80% of the X. Who cares what AH does.

Has anyone compared distances of teams from the X in the current WCHA and the distance of teams from Green Bay or Duluth?

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Wait, what? Last I read, GB fit the schedule just fine for the 2013 championship, an alternate venue would be needed for 2014. Conveniently, the B1G would not be at the Xcel center in 2014.

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Wait, what? Last I read, GB fit the schedule just fine for the 2013 championship, an alternate venue would be needed for 2014. Conveniently, the B1G would not be at the Xcel center in 2014.

The Big Ten will play at the XCel Center in 2014 and 2016 and at the Joe in 2015 and 2017. There is no need for Green Bay in 2013, that's next March when the CCHA will be at the Joe and the WCHA at the XCel.

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

I'm just not sure that I've ever seen any of the nWCHA schools generate that kind of crowd, even when they've made the final five. The audience has always been mostly MN, WI, ND with a smattering of CC and DU.

What teams were normally playing in the Final Five in the past years? The answer is usually pretty close to "...mostly MN, WI, ND with a smattering of CC and DU". If MTU, BSU, MSU etc were in the Final Five on a regular basis, I'm sure you would see a different set of fans attending. The only fans of those schools that show up most years are just those that really like college hockey and don't really care who is playing. I can say from first hand experiance there were WAY more MTU fans at this year's Final Five vs past years and I'm sure that is directly related to the team actually being on the ice.

I still agree with the point that having a predetermined location HELPS attendance, even if it is a farther drive/flight for some teams than their home rink. That's why the Frozen Four does much better than the NCAA regionals even if they put the FF in some out of the way location like Tampa. People plan ahead and do show up. If you told fans two-weeks in advance they were playing in Tampa, I'm sure FF attendance would be down as well.

Another example is that MTU mentioned recently that the first year of the new league, MTU would play at UAA and UAF on back to back weekends. Almost immediately, some Tech fans started talking about planning a trip that would allow them to stay the week in AK. I'm not saying every fan will go, but advance notice makes it easier for the casual fan to get interested because they have time to comp up with a plan.

Ryan J