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Fighting Sioux 23
04-14-2012, 09:57 PM
I think that Brock Hall was not a college hockey team. The AAU was a national amateur tournament, not a college tournament. College teams are, of course, amateur (technically) and Minnesota just happened to play in, and win, that tournament in 1940.

Brock Hall was a company team full of amateurs (think rec league softball). Brock Hall's actual name was Brock-Hall Dairy Milkmen. Brock-Hall Dairy was a company in Connecticut (not sure if it still exists). Back at that time, there were a lot of these company teams full of amateurs that would play college teams, as there were just not all that many college teams, and travel was near impossible, so filling a schedule was extremely difficult. Somehow, the Milkmen (yes, I'm serious) gained entry into the AAU tournament, and lost to the Gophers cementing their place in history.

That being said, the 1940 Gophers are not really relevant to this thread (about NCAA era accomplishments). They were almost assuredly the best team during the 1939-1940 season, and it is too bad that the NCAA wasn't around a decade earlier to see how they would have fared in the NCAA Tournament. As we all know, the best team often fails to win the title...just ask Brendan Morrison. :)

SteveF
04-14-2012, 10:02 PM
Brock Hall was a company team full of amateurs (think rec league softball). Brock Hall's actual name was Brock-Hall Dairy Milkmen. Brock-Hall Dairy was a company in Connecticut (not sure if it still exists). Back at that time, there were a lot of these company teams full of amateurs that would play college teams, as there were just not all that many college teams, and travel was near impossible, so filling a schedule was extremely difficult. Somehow, the Milkmen (yes, I'm serious) gained entry into the AAU tournament, and lost to the Gophers cementing their place in history.

That being said, the 1940 Gophers are not really relevant to this thread (about NCAA era accomplishments). They were almost assuredly the best team during the 1939-1940 season, and it is too bad that the NCAA wasn't around a decade earlier to see how they would have fared in the NCAA Tournament. As we all know, the best team often fails to win the title...just ask Brendan Morrison. :)

The best team has only won it all 5 times by my count

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 10:03 PM
Brock Hall was a company team full of amateurs (think rec league softball). Brock Hall's actual name was Brock-Hall Dairy Milkmen. Brock-Hall Dairy was a company in Connecticut (not sure if it still exists). Back at that time, there were a lot of these company teams full of amateurs that would play college teams, as there were just not all that many college teams, and travel was near impossible, so filling a schedule was extremely difficult. Somehow, the Milkmen (yes, I'm serious) gained entry into the AAU tournament, and lost to the Gophers cementing their place in history.

That being said, the 1940 Gophers are not really relevant to this thread (about NCAA era accomplishments). They were almost assuredly the best team during the 1939-1940 season, and it is too bad that the NCAA wasn't around a decade earlier to see how they would have fared in the NCAA Tournament. As we all know, the best team often fails to win the title...just ask Brendan Morrison. :)

You're right, the best team doesn't always win. But sometimes there is a team that is so much better than everyone else that it is truely almost a foregone conclusion. The Gophers truely deserved to be called champions that year, and I am glad that team is honored with a banner at Mariucci.

aygwm2
04-14-2012, 10:07 PM
Brock Hall was a company team full of amateurs (think rec league softball). Brock Hall's actual name was Brock-Hall Dairy Milkmen. Brock-Hall Dairy was a company in Connecticut (not sure if it still exists). Back at that time, there were a lot of these company teams full of amateurs that would play college teams, as there were just not all that many college teams, and travel was near impossible, so filling a schedule was extremely difficult. Somehow, the Milkmen (yes, I'm serious) gained entry into the AAU tournament, and lost to the Gophers cementing their place in history.

That being said, the 1940 Gophers are not really relevant to this thread (about NCAA era accomplishments).

Thank you FS23, this is the kind of answer I was hoping for when I asked about Brock Hall. Nice little oddity from hockey history.

darker98
04-14-2012, 10:25 PM
The best team has only won it all 5 times by my count
Really? name them.

Dirty
04-14-2012, 10:28 PM
Really? name them.

Minnesota. Duh. They were the best team plus they had tradition!

darker98
04-14-2012, 10:30 PM
Minnesota. Duh. They were the best team plus they had tradition!
This is the first time i've heard of them.

Tipsy McStagger
04-15-2012, 02:07 AM
I mean why even waste the time creating a mathmatical formula to rank programs? There are subjective factors that cannot be quantitated mathmatically.
I don't want to pile on, but i can't help myself. This is just a colossally dumb thing to say.

PEOPLE USE STATISTICS BECAUSE THEY ELIMINATE OPINION/SUBJECTIVITY. They give us something other than arguments to actually PROVE something. You don't like that because Minnesota isn't the best if you use numbers.

I know SCSU isn't the best or most successful program. They aren't even in the top 20. They are my favorite, though. I can live with it. You can't. It's sad.

JDUBBS1280
04-15-2012, 07:52 AM
I don't want to pile on, but i can't help myself. This is just a colossally dumb thing to say.

PEOPLE USE STATISTICS BECAUSE THEY ELIMINATE OPINION/SUBJECTIVITY. They give us something other than arguments to actually PROVE something. You don't like that because Minnesota isn't the best if you use numbers.

I know SCSU isn't the best or most successful program. They aren't even in the top 20. They are my favorite, though. I can live with it. You can't. It's sad.

I think the question of "greatest program ever" is a very subjective thing. We all value different things. Everyone values national championships, but IMO there are other factors you cannot quantify that make a program great. And choosing which stats/numbers to use and which not to use essentially makes even using numbers a subjective exercise.

And if you don't understand something, is it not ok to ask questions to try and understand? I don't understand the need by people to quantify greatness when it is largely a subjective topic.

Tipsy McStagger
04-15-2012, 09:22 AM
I think the question of "greatest program ever" is a very subjective thing. We all value different things. Everyone values national championships, but IMO there are other factors you cannot quantify that make a program great. And choosing which stats/numbers to use and which not to use essentially makes even using numbers a subjective exercise.

And if you don't understand something, is it not ok to ask questions to try and understand? I don't understand the need by people to quantify greatness when it is largely a subjective topic.

It is okay to ask questions, but yours isn't a question that anyone can answer. You obviously aren't going to understand. He made his own system for ranking teams and reported the results. He never said that the results should be taken as gospel. It is just a conversation starter.

The attempt to quantify greatness is to attempt to eliminate the subjectivity. If I think the Vikings are better than the Packers and another person disagrees, naturally you would go to the team's record and use that as a starting point for an argument. Same thing here. Without statistics, the argument never evolves beyond "my team is better", "no MY team is better".

JDUBBS1280
04-15-2012, 09:26 AM
It is okay to ask questions, but yours isn't a question that anyone can answer. You obviously aren't going to understand. He made his own system for ranking teams and reported the results. He never said that the results should be taken as gospel. It is just a conversation starter.

The attempt to quantify greatness is to attempt to eliminate the subjectivity. If I think the Vikings are better than the Packers and another person disagrees, naturally you would go to the team's record and use that as a starting point for an argument. Same thing here. Without statistics, the argument never evolves beyond "my team is better", "no MY team is better".

Using your example, isn't part of what makes the Packers special the fact that they are the only publicly owned professional sports teams in the country, that they have a LONG season ticket waiting list, and that they have a lengthy history that pre-dates Super Bowls?

Even if the Vikings (whom I'm a fan of too) had as many Super Bowl wins/appearances as the Packers, I still think I'd have a hard time calling the Vikings the greater franchise.

Gurtholfin
04-15-2012, 10:05 AM
Using your example, isn't part of what makes the Packers special the fact that they are the only publicly owned professional sports teams in the country, that they have a LONG season ticket waiting list, and that they have a lengthy history that pre-dates Super Bowls?

Even if the Vikings (whom I'm a fan of too) had as many Super Bowl wins/appearances as the Packers, I still think I'd have a hard time calling the Vikings the greater franchise.

12 > 0

Add the tradition modifier to that and I'd have to suggest contraction.


Also - 4 > 0 in case we only want to talk Super Bowls and 2 > 0 in case we only want to talk my lifetime and 1 > 0 if we only want to talk last decade. For the record, Vikings fans brought up football. :p

Oh yeah and 4 on the Packers > 4 on the Queens. Anybody still wearing those jerseys?

Gurtholfin
04-15-2012, 10:11 AM
I'm trying to be sincere. I understand my viewpoints aren't popular.

I think you sell yourself short. I'd replace the bolded with "universally scorned, pointed at and laughed at."

JDUBBS1280
04-15-2012, 10:22 AM
12 > 0

add the tradition modifier to that and i'd have to suggest contraction.


also - 4 > 0 in case we only want to talk super bowls and 2 > 0 in case we only want to talk my lifetime and 1 > 0 if we only want to talk last decade. For the record, vikings fans brought up football. :p

oh yeah and 4 on the packers > 4 on the queens. Anybody still wearing those jerseys?

whooooooooosh

HumRsky
04-15-2012, 10:24 AM
Using your example, isn't part of what makes the Packers special the fact that they are the only publicly owned professional sports teams in the country, that they have a LONG season ticket waiting list, and that they have a lengthy history that pre-dates Super Bowls?

Even if the Vikings (whom I'm a fan of too) had as many Super Bowl wins/appearances as the Packers, I still think I'd have a hard time calling the Vikings the greater franchise.
1. If this stuff bothers you so much, why do you bother reading and responding?
2. I disn't use the word "greatest," but perhaps "most successful" is more accurate.
3. Speaking of most successful and football, there is no doubt that they are the most successful team in NFL history, but there's also no doubt that they have the least likeable fanbase in the NFL;):p ...but I digress

JDUBBS1280
04-15-2012, 10:28 AM
1. If this stuff bothers you so much, why do you bother reading and responding?
2. I disn't use the word "greatest," but perhaps "most successful" is more accurate.
3. Speaking of most successful and football, there is no doubt that they are the most successful team in NFL history, but there's also no doubt that try have the least likeable fanbase in the NFL;):p ...but I digress

It doesn't bother me. I just don't understand people's need to quantify greatness.

Gurtholfin
04-15-2012, 10:29 AM
whooooooooosh

So wait, you made a point and someone took it in a radically different direction?

No WAY!

Gurtholfin
04-15-2012, 10:30 AM
I just don't understand people's need to quantify greatness.


Seriously? YOU are going to say that?

JDUBBS1280
04-15-2012, 10:36 AM
Seriously? YOU are going to say that?

Yes. I don't believe I have ever tried to quantify greatness. It's a very subjective term.

For instance, in my opinion your favorite program pales in all things that make my favorite program unique, significant, and great. But that's just the opinion of myself and many others. You are fully entitled to believe your plug-and-play program is neat-o if you'd like ;)

Slap Shot
04-15-2012, 11:03 AM
And JDUBBS takes a dump in another thread.