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  • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Was this one of your "facts" to back up your statement?





    Quote Originally Posted by Back2BackU-MnPride2002 View Post

    LOL, Miami is no worse a #3 than the Gophers are a #2, eh?!

    WOW, and all because the RPI, a rating system respected by about 5% of sports fans, says so, eh?!



    No, that was an opinion. Based on what is pretty close to fact, and that is that FANS, in general, do not like the RPI. The RPI is a horrible rating system, possibly the worst out there. College BB fans HATE it. The NCAA Selection Committee has admitted that its not a good rating system.


    What? You like the RPI rating system?! lol

    Comment


    • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

      Originally posted by Back2BackU-MnPride2002 View Post
      And Tipsy, that Miami that you were defending? LOL, their fans used the weakness of SCSU's ooc accomplishments as an example to try to prove my remarks about the CCHA to be bs.

      Nice of them eh?! LOL
      Maybe you should look again who you are talking about. The person that said this is a Michigan fan, and a noted hater of Miami hockey. She said it herself.
      Last edited by SweeneyHawksHockey; 03-13-2013, 03:27 PM.
      2014-15 NCAA Weekly Pick'em Overall and NCAA Tournament Champion

      Love and Honor

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      • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

        Originally posted by Back2BackU-MnPride2002 View Post
        As has been said many times before, it is a "general rule".


        When local talent can not fill up over 50% of a teams roster, yes, of course they go elsewhere to find that talent. And the more girls and boys that choose to play hockey, the fewer that are playing other sports.


        But those ratios are not that far from being at 50%. I'm guessing the football team throws the mens stats way off.


        And I still would be willing to bet those ratios are much higher than the average college out there.
        Actually there are 4 mens teams with a worse ratio than Football:
        Basketball, Tennis, Swimming & Diving, Gymnastics
        And 4 womens teams worse than Football:
        Tennis, Volleyball, Golf, Gymnastics

        Surely you would agree that Tennis, Swimming & Diving, Volleyball, Golf and at least Women's Gymnastics should do better than the 33% or less they are currently doing and would be if this was more generally a University policy?
        Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

        Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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        • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

          St. Cloud State's out of conference performance WAS weak. What am I gonna say? It isn't true? That is obviously why we are 12th in the PWR and Minnesota is in 2nd.

          No, but its just funny TO ME, that you, an SCSU fan, jumped to Miami's defense, and then those Miami fans used YOUR school as a weapon to try to defend their conf.

          Comment


          • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

            Good one guys! You all really had me going but I finally got it!

            This entire board is made up of wonderful people from Minnesota pretending to be fans of all the other schools in order to perpetuate the growth of hockey in the USA...

            Gosh, I feel a bit ridiculous for falling for it now, but really... excellent job! I even donate to my school's hockey program!
            Originally posted by WiscTJK
            I'm with Wisko and Tim.
            Originally posted by Timothy A
            Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

            Comment


            • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

              Actually there are 4 mens teams with a worse ratio than Football:
              Basketball, Tennis, Swimming & Diving, Gymnastics
              And 4 womens teams worse than Football:
              Tennis, Volleyball, Golf, Gymnastics

              Surely you would agree that Tennis, Swimming & Diving, Volleyball, Golf and at least Women's Gymnastics should do better than the 33% or less they are currently doing and would be if this was more generally a University policy?


              No, I wouldn't. Tennis is NOT a big sport in Minnesota. For one the weather here makes it difficult for Minnesotans in sports like Tennis and Golf to have huge success. Who do we have in Tennis history? David Wheaton? He went to Stanford I believe, and he's hardly one of histories greatest, and he's about all Minnesota has produced and like I said, he left the state. Golf? We have Tom Lehman who I played with in the past. And the golf team fluctuates, some years I know for a fact there were more Minnesotans on the team than out of staters, but they've tried to supplement the Minnesota talent with players from England and Australian and other places. And they've had a great deal of success because of this, thus keeping the Golf program alive, and allowing for Minnesota players to be able to stay home to play collegiate golf, an opportunity that would not be afforded them right now had the team not experienced some success, and that success was in part due to out of state talent, but only IN PART. I believe it was a local boy who had the best round of his career that really made the team that year?

              Gymnastics as a high school sport, at least from my out-state perspective, doesn't exist, at all. So that one doesn't shock me. Swimming & Diving? Well, like I said, they make exceptions when the state alone can not supply enough quality athletes to put forward a highly competitive team. Coaches started making international connections and now we're getting a lot more out of staters, and have had success, too. As for Basketball? That fluctuates from year to year, and like I said, the more importance a sport has to the financial outlook of the entire athletic dept, the more willing everyone is to stray from the norm, but even saying that, the bb team has fluctuated from year to year, some years having more Minnesotans than other years, and one of the BIGGEST concerns of ALL Gopher bb fans, is that keeping Tubby Smith around will prevent us from getting what is being called the Big 3, that is 3 recruits all from Minnesota. There is another guy from Chicago who is good friends with the best rated of this group, but no one seems to care about this guy, argued by some to be the #1 overall recruit in the nation, and instead Gopher fans seem to act like they'd MUCH rather have a local boy who is rated in the Top 50, but no where near #1 like the guy from Chicago. WHEN the local talent is there, THAT is who the Gopher fans want. THAT is who the school wants. If those players leave the state, the school NEEDS the coach to get good players from somewhere else in order to keep paying the bills, as cbb and cfb do. Those 2 sports pay the bills for the other 20 sports. Hk basically breaks even.


              As for the Women's sports, same goes for women's tennis as I said about men's. I'll add that Swimming and Diving is not a huge sport in Mn at the high school level, and again, that's coming from an outstate perspective, and by outstate I mean, not living in the Twin Cities, but in outstate Mn, or greater Mn as some call it, out in the boonies, the sticks, the country, up north, etc.. I know that the VB team takes the best from Mn, and gets almost all of them, but has expanded its out of state recruiting more and more in the last 15 years or so, and has had incredible success because of it. So the 33 percent or whatever that are from Minnesota, are getting to play on one of the best vb teams in the nation. The golf team sucks ash, so maybe they feel that they need to look out of state for recruits to improve the situation, before the risk of losing the program becomes a real issue again? Not sure about Gymnastics?



              But I bet if you looked at the #s from the past 10 or 20 years instead of just one year, those ratios would fluctuate. Some of those sports would move up above 5-% and others might drop down below. It's not an exact science, and you can only do as much as you can without risking fielding a totally horrible team.


              It's a balancing act. Back when the U didn't have 23 sports to support and players often played 2 or 3 sports in college, it was MUCH easier to field teams of primarily Minnesota natives, AND do well. And in some sports it honestly wasn't as big of a deal whether they did well or not.


              But if you can believe it, the teams that formed one of the greatest cfb dynasties of history, the 1934-41 Gophers, were almost exclusively Minnesota boys, with a few exceptions. Those same players played hockey and basketball and track and golf and baseball for the Gophers as well. That doesn't happen anymore.

              And Minnesota's population isn't growing like other states' are, so it forces the school to adjust, especially with Title IX and being forced to have more women's sports teams than mens.



              And honestly, even 33% being the low end for all the 23 sports, is pretty **** impressive if you take all things into consideration.

              Comment


              • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                Maybe you should look again who you are talking about. The person that said this is a Michigan fan, and a noted hater of Miami hockey. She said it herself.

                You are right SweeneyHawksHockey --

                That was a Michigan fan, wasn't it? Not ticked that I was dissing Miami, but ticked that I was also dissing the CCHA. Yep, you are correct.


                Takes the funny out of it, though. Thanks, lol.

                Comment


                • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                  My eyes are bleeding, please learn how to quote properly.

                  Thanks

                  Comment


                  • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                    Originally posted by SanTropez View Post
                    My eyes are bleeding, please learn how to quote properly.

                    Thanks
                    Like this...

                    Comment


                    • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                      Originally posted by Back2BackU-MnPride2002 View Post
                      No, I wouldn't. Tennis is NOT a big sport in Minnesota. For one the weather here makes it difficult for Minnesotans in sports like Tennis and Golf to have huge success. Who do we have in Tennis history? David Wheaton? He went to Stanford I believe, and he's hardly one of histories greatest, and he's about all Minnesota has produced and like I said, he left the state. Golf? We have Tom Lehman who I played with in the past. And the golf team fluctuates, some years I know for a fact there were more Minnesotans on the team than out of staters, but they've tried to supplement the Minnesota talent with players from England and Australian and other places. And they've had a great deal of success because of this, thus keeping the Golf program alive, and allowing for Minnesota players to be able to stay home to play collegiate golf, an opportunity that would not be afforded them right now had the team not experienced some success, and that success was in part due to out of state talent, but only IN PART. I believe it was a local boy who had the best round of his career that really made the team that year?

                      Gymnastics as a high school sport, at least from my out-state perspective, doesn't exist, at all. So that one doesn't shock me. Swimming & Diving? Well, like I said, they make exceptions when the state alone can not supply enough quality athletes to put forward a highly competitive team. Coaches started making international connections and now we're getting a lot more out of staters, and have had success, too. As for Basketball? That fluctuates from year to year, and like I said, the more importance a sport has to the financial outlook of the entire athletic dept, the more willing everyone is to stray from the norm, but even saying that, the bb team has fluctuated from year to year, some years having more Minnesotans than other years, and one of the BIGGEST concerns of ALL Gopher bb fans, is that keeping Tubby Smith around will prevent us from getting what is being called the Big 3, that is 3 recruits all from Minnesota. There is another guy from Chicago who is good friends with the best rated of this group, but no one seems to care about this guy, argued by some to be the #1 overall recruit in the nation, and instead Gopher fans seem to act like they'd MUCH rather have a local boy who is rated in the Top 50, but no where near #1 like the guy from Chicago. WHEN the local talent is there, THAT is who the Gopher fans want. THAT is who the school wants. If those players leave the state, the school NEEDS the coach to get good players from somewhere else in order to keep paying the bills, as cbb and cfb do. Those 2 sports pay the bills for the other 20 sports. Hk basically breaks even.

                      As for the Women's sports, same goes for women's tennis as I said about men's. I'll add that Swimming and Diving is not a huge sport in Mn at the high school level, and again, that's coming from an outstate perspective, and by outstate I mean, not living in the Twin Cities, but in outstate Mn, or greater Mn as some call it, out in the boonies, the sticks, the country, up north, etc.. I know that the VB team takes the best from Mn, and gets almost all of them, but has expanded its out of state recruiting more and more in the last 15 years or so, and has had incredible success because of it. So the 33 percent or whatever that are from Minnesota, are getting to play on one of the best vb teams in the nation. The golf team sucks ash, so maybe they feel that they need to look out of state for recruits to improve the situation, before the risk of losing the program becomes a real issue again? Not sure about Gymnastics?

                      But I bet if you looked at the #s from the past 10 or 20 years instead of just one year, those ratios would fluctuate. Some of those sports would move up above 5-% and others might drop down below. It's not an exact science, and you can only do as much as you can without risking fielding a totally horrible team.

                      It's a balancing act. Back when the U didn't have 23 sports to support and players often played 2 or 3 sports in college, it was MUCH easier to field teams of primarily Minnesota natives, AND do well. And in some sports it honestly wasn't as big of a deal whether they did well or not.

                      But if you can believe it, the teams that formed one of the greatest cfb dynasties of history, the 1934-41 Gophers, were almost exclusively Minnesota boys, with a few exceptions. Those same players played hockey and basketball and track and golf and baseball for the Gophers as well. That doesn't happen anymore.

                      And Minnesota's population isn't growing like other states' are, so it forces the school to adjust, especially with Title IX and being forced to have more women's sports teams than mens.

                      And honestly, even 33% being the low end for all the 23 sports, is pretty **** impressive if you take all things into consideration.
                      33% is not the low end, the lowest is 10% and Title IX does no force Minnesota to have more women's teams than men, it forces equal opportunity based on enrollment. Football forces Minnesota to have more women's sports than men's to attempt to reach equal opportunity.
                      Girl's hockey is extremely popular in Minnesota and yet the Gophers only have 50% of their current roster from Minnesota. I would think they could still be #1 in the country and have 70% Minnesotans...don't need the streak so don't need all those imports...
                      To reiterate what I said before, it seems extremely odd that this would be a school "policy" and to not have more women from Minnesota simply because success probably isn't that important to those teams. I thought it was about promoting local even if it means losing more? the low end women's sports aren't going anywhere even if they are awful because of Title IX so why not give the scholarships to the best available Minnesotans?
                      Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                      Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                      • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                        For comparison, as a Michigan Tech fan, MTU actually has a better % of overall players from Michigan than Minnesota from Minnesota...at 47%
                        Considering Michigan Tech's remote location from the majority of Michigan's population, thats pretty impressive. In quite a few of the women's sports, a large chuck of the athletes come from Wisconsin simply because MTU is the best D2 school anywhere near Northern Wisconsin, especially the northeastern areas around Appleton, Oshkosh, Green Bay.
                        Men's sports are way more dominated by in-state athletes at Michigan Tech than Minnesota...55.5% vs 44.3%
                        Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                        Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                        Comment


                        • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                          33% is not the low end, the lowest is 10% and Title IX does no force Minnesota to have more women's teams than men, it forces equal opportunity based on enrollment. Football forces Minnesota to have more women's sports than men's to attempt to reach equal opportunity.
                          Girl's hockey is extremely popular in Minnesota and yet the Gophers only have 50% of their current roster from Minnesota. I would think they could still be #1 in the country and have 70% Minnesotans...don't need the streak so don't need all those imports...
                          To reiterate what I said before, it seems extremely odd that this would be a school "policy" and to not have more women from Minnesota simply because success probably isn't that important to those teams. I thought it was about promoting local even if it means losing more? the low end women's sports aren't going anywhere even if they are awful because of Title IX so why not give the scholarships to the best available Minnesotans?


                          Well, I thought that you would know what I meant, when I said that Title IX forces schools to have more women's sports than mens, because as everyone without some beef against football knows and acknowledges, football pays all the bills. So no, Title IX does not force it, cfb and THE REALITY OF THINGS COST MONEY, forces it to be like that, and for every college, not just Minnesota.


                          You mentioned the women's hockey team, and I haven't had a chance to go look it up and confirm ANY of your #s, but what I noticed was that 6 of UMns incoming recruits for next year are, yep, ALL FROM MINNESOTA. And 3 of the 4 committed to come into the program the year after, are ALL FROM MINNESOTA.

                          That's 9 out of 11.

                          And since 3 Srs and 4 of the Juniors on the team are out of staters, that 50% is going to jump up next year, and then even more the year after that.

                          Like I said, it fluctuates.

                          And I said its about BALANCE. We almost lost 4 sports back in 2002. But the Golf team, partly because of some out of state players on the team, won a Natl Title, and miraculously so as they were on the verge of elimation after the first 2 rounds, and just got in by like 1 stroke, and then moved up from 15th place to 7th on day 3, and all the way up to 1st on the final day. That Natl title inspired some alums to work at raising up the funds to not only keep the Men's Golf Program, but the other 3 programs as well. Had we stuck to a strict only Minnesotans policy, or a strict at least 50% policy for every sport, we'd be down at least 4 sports right now. But sticking "IN GENERAL" to that policy, but allowing for some discretion to by used by the highly paid coaches we hire to make these kinds of decisions helped the entire athletic dept in general and the Men's Golf team a great deal.

                          BALANCE.

                          The school looks for a good and healthy balance between gaining success, but while striving to give as many opportunities to WORTHY local athletes as possible.



                          And what sport, btw, is it that is at 10%?

                          Comment


                          • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                            For comparison, as a Michigan Tech fan, MTU actually has a better % of overall players from Michigan than Minnesota from Minnesota...at 47%
                            Considering Michigan Tech's remote location from the majority of Michigan's population, thats pretty impressive. In quite a few of the women's sports, a large chuck of the athletes come from Wisconsin simply because MTU is the best D2 school anywhere near Northern Wisconsin, especially the northeastern areas around Appleton, Oshkosh, Green Bay.
                            Men's sports are way more dominated by in-state athletes at Michigan Tech than Minnesota...55.5% vs 44.3%



                            That's great for the state of Michigan, and for Michigan Tech. But one question? Michigan Tech is Div 1 in how many sports?!


                            Local Div 2 and Div 3 schools here in Minnesota are absolutely LOADED with almost nothing but local talent, too. But that's comparing Apples to Oranges.

                            Comment


                            • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                              Originally posted by Back2BackU-MnPride2002 View Post
                              Well, I thought that you would know what I meant, when I said that Title IX forces schools to have more women's sports than mens, because as everyone without some beef against football knows and acknowledges, football pays all the bills. So no, Title IX does not force it, cfb and THE REALITY OF THINGS COST MONEY, forces it to be like that, and for every college, not just Minnesota.


                              You mentioned the women's hockey team, and I haven't had a chance to go look it up and confirm ANY of your #s, but what I noticed was that 6 of UMns incoming recruits for next year are, yep, ALL FROM MINNESOTA. And 3 of the 4 committed to come into the program the year after, are ALL FROM MINNESOTA.

                              That's 9 out of 11.

                              And since 3 Srs and 4 of the Juniors on the team are out of staters, that 50% is going to jump up next year, and then even more the year after that.

                              Like I said, it fluctuates.

                              And I said its about BALANCE. We almost lost 4 sports back in 2002. But the Golf team, partly because of some out of state players on the team, won a Natl Title, and miraculously so as they were on the verge of elimation after the first 2 rounds, and just got in by like 1 stroke, and then moved up from 15th place to 7th on day 3, and all the way up to 1st on the final day. That Natl title inspired some alums to work at raising up the funds to not only keep the Men's Golf Program, but the other 3 programs as well. Had we stuck to a strict only Minnesotans policy, or a strict at least 50% policy for every sport, we'd be down at least 4 sports right now. But sticking "IN GENERAL" to that policy, but allowing for some discretion to by used by the highly paid coaches we hire to make these kinds of decisions helped the entire athletic dept in general and the Men's Golf team a great deal.

                              BALANCE.

                              The school looks for a good and healthy balance between gaining success, but while striving to give as many opportunities to WORTHY local athletes as possible.



                              And what sport, btw, is it that is at 10%?
                              Men's Gymnastics, which to be fair isn't at all surprising. Men's swimming and diving is at <19%, Men's tennis is at ~22%
                              Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                              Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                              Comment


                              • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                                Originally posted by Back2BackU-MnPride2002 View Post
                                That's great for the state of Michigan, and for Michigan Tech. But one question? Michigan Tech is Div 1 in how many sports?!


                                Local Div 2 and Div 3 schools here in Minnesota are absolutely LOADED with almost nothing but local talent, too. But that's comparing Apples to Oranges.
                                are you belittling the fact that Michigan Tech uses Michigan athletes? How dare you! You don't think its important for Michigan Tech to use Michigan Athletes?

                                To be honest, I just don't care enough to look up numbers for other schools, so I chose Michigan Tech...
                                Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                                Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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