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Fighting Sioux 23
04-14-2012, 11:10 AM
I forgot to mention in my first post that I got my NCAA tournament numbers from the NCAA record book, and therefore did not include vacated years. I got my conference numbers from the College Hockey Historical Archive. My decision to include Ivy League and Tri-State Champioships from 1949-1961 may have given me some different numbers than you. I felt that teams in those conferences were very relevant at that time and they were the only conference those teams were in.

One thing I might suggest is to include the Big 10 champions from 1947-1948 until the creation of the MCHL (WCHA). Logically that seems to fit with what you were trying to do by including Ivy League and Tri-State Champions.

Also, I think some of the numbers from the NCAA record book are wrong. I believe Michigan only has 49 NCAA wins, while BC has 46. Plus, as you mentioned, the vacated years are not included (which hurts DU and Wisconsin, although just point wise, not ranking wise). I've been putting my numbers together for 3 years and still find mistakes (including one huge one in regards to DU this year), so it happens :)

Biddco
04-14-2012, 11:16 AM
Because you would actually have to look at other programs besides Minnesota.

Good job HumRsky. I obviously had different weightings and looked at different things, but in just looking at team accomplishments this is a pretty good formula. These are always fun to do and look at how the results come out. Anyway, kudos, well done.

My sources have confirmed this is the formula that would be used in that situation: Tradition + Are you Minnesota? = Your ranking

By plugging in this mysterious formula I came up with:

#1 - Minnesota
#58 - North Dakota
#58 - Boston University
#58 - Boston College
#58 - Michigan
#58 - Wisconsin
#58 - Denver
#58 - Michigan State
#58 - Maine
#58 - Michigan Tech
#58 - Cornell
#58 - Colorado College
#58 - Lake Superior St.
#58 - Rensselaer
#58 - Harvard
#58 - Clarkson
#58 - Bowling Green
#58 - New Hampshire
#58 - Minnesota Duluth
#58 - Northern Mich.
#58 - St. Lawrence
#58 - Miami
#58 - Providence
#58 - Notre Dame
#58 - Dartmouth
#58 - Yale
#58 - Colgate
#58 - Ferris State
#58 - Northeastern
#58 - Brown
#58 - Ohio State
#58 - Mass. Lowell
#58 - Vermont
#58 - Union
#58 - St. Cloud St.
#58 - Bemidji State
#58 - Niagara
#58 - Western Mich.
#58 - RIT
#58 - Air Force
#58 - Princeton
#58 - AK Anchorage
#58 - Alaska
#58 - Holy Cross
#58 - Quinnipiac
#58 - Massachusetts
#58 - Merrimack
#58 - Minnesota State
#58 - Neb. Omaha
#58 - Mercyhurst
#58 - AL. Huntsville
#58 - American Intern'l
#58 - Army
#58 - Connecticut
#58 - Sacred Heart
#58 - Robert Morris
#58 - Canisius
#58 -Bentley

HumRsky
04-14-2012, 11:26 AM
One thing I might suggest is to include the Big 10 champions from 1947-1948 until the creation of the MCHL (WCHA). Logically that seems to fit with what you were trying to do by including Ivy League and Tri-State Champions.

Also, I think some of the numbers from the NCAA record book are wrong. I believe Michigan only has 49 NCAA wins, while BC has 46. Plus, as you mentioned, the vacated years are not included (which hurts DU and Wisconsin, although just point wise, not ranking wise). I've been putting my numbers together for 3 years and still find mistakes (including one huge one in regards to DU this year), so it happens :)
The B1G record book shows that hockey championships were awarded from 1958-59 until 1980-81, so always concurrent with some form of the WCHA.

HumRsky
04-14-2012, 11:37 AM
My sources have confirmed this is the formula that would be used in that situation: Tradition + Are you Minnesota? = Your ranking

I found one created by a North Dakota fan not named FS23 and it came up with this:

1. North Dakota
2. Holy Cross
A bunch of college hockey teams that may or may not exist
-infinity. Denver
-infinity x2. Minnesota
-infinity x3. Aaron Marvin

Fighting Sioux 23
04-14-2012, 11:37 AM
The B1G record book shows that hockey championships were awarded from 1958-59 until 1980-81, so always concurrent with some form of the WCHA.

Perhaps it is just the Gophers then that count "Big 10" titles from the 20s and 30s?

darker98
04-14-2012, 11:42 AM
Perhaps it is just the Gophers then that count "Big 10" titles from the 20s and 30s?
Like that would ever happen.

HumRsky
04-14-2012, 11:44 AM
Perhaps it is just the Gophers then that count "Big 10" titles from the 20s and 30s?

Couldn't tell ya:)

gopheritall
04-14-2012, 12:47 PM
The only change I would make is adding 1 point for every game played at Mariucci or Williams arenas. That seems a reasonable measure of a program.

Slap Shot
04-14-2012, 01:03 PM
Where is the Rau multiplier dammit?

darker98
04-14-2012, 01:54 PM
The only change I would make is adding 1 point for every game played at Mariucci or Williams arenas. That seems a reasonable measure of a program.

100 points for playing Brock Hall and a bonus 50 for beating them.

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 01:57 PM
I mean why even waste the time creating a mathmatical formula to rank programs? There are subjective factors that cannot be quantitated mathmatically. Just seems like a waste of time to me, but to each their own.

And it has nothing to do with Minnesota not being ranked number one. I understand the criteria being used in these rankings and FS23's. Using those factors, Minnesota shouldn't be #1. We all value different things, which is fine. I just don't understand the need to creat such subjective rankings.

Biddco
04-14-2012, 01:59 PM
I mean why even waste the time creating a mathmatical formula to rank programs? There are subjective factors that cannot be quantitated mathmatically. Just seems like a waste of time to me, but to each their own.

And it has nothing to do with Minnesota not being ranked number one. I understand the criteria being used in these rankings and FS23's. Using those factors, Minnesota shouldn't be #1. We all value different things, which is fine. I just don't understand the need to creat such subjective rankings.
Is tradition subjective?

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 02:00 PM
100 points for playing Brock Hall and a bonus 50 for beating them.

Ignorant comment in my opinion. You act like it was 2012 and the Gophers were playing Brock Hall. Hockey was much different back then and Brock Hall made the championship over the likes of Michigan, Michigan Tech, Boston, Boston College, Yale, etc... so they couldn't have been that weak of an opponent.

Dirty
04-14-2012, 02:02 PM
Is tradition subjective?
.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uGHi9D8_wgs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

sterlippo1
04-14-2012, 02:02 PM
interesting Harvard so high with only 1 NC but lots of conference titles , i like this good job!

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 02:03 PM
Is tradition subjective?

I'm trying to be sincere. I understand my viewpoints aren't popular. I am trying to be open minded. Yes, there are subjective factors, in my opinion, that set some programs a part and make them special. And that doesn't just mean Minnesota, Michigan, etc...

HumRsky
04-14-2012, 02:19 PM
I mean why even waste the time creating a mathmatical formula to rank programs? There are subjective factors that cannot be quantitated mathmatically. Just seems like a waste of time to me, but to each their own.

And it has nothing to do with Minnesota not being ranked number one. I understand the criteria being used in these rankings and FS23's. Using those factors, Minnesota shouldn't be #1. We all value different things, which is fine. I just don't understand the need to creat such subjective rankings.
People, including me, like looking at rankings and talking about them. If you don't, that's fine no one is forcing you to read threads where someone came up with a way of ranking teams.

burd
04-14-2012, 02:27 PM
I'm trying to be sincere. I understand my viewpoints aren't popular. I am trying to be open minded. Yes, there are subjective factors, in my opinion, that set some programs a part and make them special. And that doesn't just mean Minnesota, Michigan, etc...

You kind of have to understand how Clark Griswold looks at Christmas.

Fighting Sioux 23
04-14-2012, 03:38 PM
Ignorant comment in my opinion. You act like it was 2012 and the Gophers were playing Brock Hall. Hockey was much different back then and Brock Hall made the championship over the likes of Michigan, Michigan Tech, Boston, Boston College, Yale, etc... so they couldn't have been that weak of an opponent.

The problem is Brock Hall didn't make the championship game over the likes of Michigan...etc. Brock Hall got beat by Yale by a worse margin than the Gophers beat Brock Hall that season. Brock Hall was a .500 club that lost the majority of its games against college competition. No other college team played in that AAU Tournament...why Gopher fans regard it as a College National Championship is beyond me.

HumRsky
04-14-2012, 04:00 PM
The problem is Brock Hall didn't make the championship game over the likes of Michigan...etc. Brock Hall got beat by Yale by a worse margin than the Gophers beat Brock Hall that season. Brock Hall was a .500 club that lost the majority of its games against college competition. No other college team played in that AAU Tournament...why Gopher fans regard it as a College National Championship is beyond me.
The way I understand it, they don't consider it a college hockey championship, however the AAU was a much more significant organization at that time and its title was indicative of the best Amateur team in the country. This is what I have "heard," not things I've read from reliable sources, so I don't know what exactly the truth is.