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Almington
04-24-2012, 04:36 PM
Difference with HE than the NCHC is that most teams can just play home and homes every year if they go to 11 teams/22 games. Though VM, Maine, and ND would have to do alternating year two game series' which would suck. Though it would open up the non-conference schedule for HE teams which already is very restrictive. It's either be able to play more OOC games, or play everyone three times. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Or HE could have an unbalanced schedule and play 26 to 28 conference games.

boblav1
04-24-2012, 04:58 PM
Though it would open up the non-conference schedule for HE teams which already is very restrictive. It's either be able to play more OOC games, or play everyone three times. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
From a Bangor Daily News article. I guess that's one way to fill the increased NC schedule.
http://bangordailynews.com/2012/03/18/sports/hockey-east-playoff-format-likely-to-change-in-2013-2014/


“If we got a 12th team, we’d at least have 22 league games or they could branch off into two six-team divisions and you could play teams within your own division three times and the teams in the other division twice. That would give you 27 league games,” said Whitehead.

Bertagna said teams scrambling for nonleague games could play extra games against Hockey East teams that wouldn’t count as league games.

For example, Maine could play a nonleague game against New Hampshire in Portland or Manchester, N.H. Or an extra two-game series at alternating home sites.

“We’re already looking into that,” said Whitehead. “We’d like to play at least three games a year [two being league games] against New Hampshire and four [two league games] a year with Vermont and UMass because of the distance involved.”


ND is a scheduling problem. The other option, if 22 is too few games is you do 2 divisions. 3 games in your division, for 15 plus 2 games agaisnt the other division for a 27 game total But the problem is still the Irish since unless you can find another opponent 5 teams go out heref for single games, which doesn't work very well.

Play two games with one being a non league game. I'm not sure I like the thought of a lot of NC games against league opponents

Ma#1ne Hky
04-24-2012, 06:03 PM
I can certainly guess at the issues.

Adding ND is a problem in terms of scheduling, with Indiana now firmly in the mix... Throwing in UConn just compounds the problem.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it sure would have made more sense to include UConn ahead of ND, if that was ever an option.

(And HEA needs neither of them, actually.)I agree with your last sentence...Hockey East does not need either ND or UConn...for a while when they were to add ND,I thought it was a awful idea...then I mellowed down and figured that ND would be a great addition for the Conference and TV.....but now I can see in 4-5 years ND deciding to jump ship and go over to the NCHC...and I never thought that UConn would be good for Hockey East...UConn is not committed to this program...to make this work they would need a better on Campus Arena(5,000 seating)and that plus putting more of and effort in the program is a long shot at UConn.

brassbonanza
04-24-2012, 07:32 PM
I'm not sure I like the thought of a lot of NC games against league opponents

you clearly don't root for a beanpot school :P

Almington
04-24-2012, 08:16 PM
Play two games with one being a non league game. I'm not sure I like the thought of a lot of NC games against league opponents

That would potentially cut ND down to only 4 free NC games in a 34 game schedule (27 league games and 3 home NC games against HE teams).


Could HE play 24 conference games, 2 each against 10 of the teams and 4 against a designated "rival" every year?

Possible Rivals:
BU-BC
NU-MC
UNH-Maine
UML-Vermont
PC-ND
UCONN-UMASS

It isn't a perfectly balanced schedule, but it prevents a team from having to make a trip to ND for a single game.

REDMEN2002
04-24-2012, 08:40 PM
Here's an idea, tell Notre Dame and UConn to go screw.

Umileated
04-24-2012, 10:58 PM
Folks are talking about how to balance the geographic outlier that is Notre Dame in a 12 team conference. I don't feel like looking up information, but how does AHA balance the geographic outlier of Air Force in a 12 team conference? How do the WCHA/CCHA deal with those pesky Alaskan teams?

I get that both ND and UConn exist outside the circle bounded by UMO, UVM, UMass and Providence - but frankly there aren't too many serious candidate schools within that loop. Brown/Harvard/Dartmouth will never split from their Ivy cronies. You could look at Holy Cross, AIC or Bentley - but I think I'd take UConn first. Or hop across the pond from Burlington to grab someone from eastern NY? I guess they could install a partial travel buddy system, but I've seen what bus fare is on the ferry - not pretty.

Essentially, we know there's going to be 11 teams. 11 is a stupid number. If anyone should be stuck with 11, it should be AHA (and sounds like it will be). Looking at maps for all the other conferences, I keep in mind that Hockey East has been very spoiled as far as the geographic footprint goes.

Complete tangent: It seems that each conference restructuring takes a step closer to installing defacto D2 leagues. AHA has essentially done that out here. I see the NCHC/WCHA stacking as doing the same thing out west. Thoughts? Is this unfortunate? Inevitable? Might it bring something more long term stability to the conference layout? Will the DeFacto D2 schools deteriorate into weaker programs, or will the smaller increased OOC schedule over here, and the smaller NCHC compensate for this?

burgie12
04-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Folks are talking about how to balance the geographic outlier that is Notre Dame in a 12 team conference. I don't feel like looking up information, but how does AHA balance the geographic outlier of Air Force in a 12 team conference? How do the WCHA/CCHA deal with those pesky Alaskan teams?
The AHA is set up in two pods, an Eastern pod (Holy Cross, Bentley, UConn, AIC, Sacred Heart, and Army) and a Western one (Air Force, Niagara, RIT, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, and Canisius). Each team plays three games against teams within their pod (some 1 away, 2 home and some 2 away, 1 home) and two games against teams from the other pod (2 home or 2 away, no home and homes).

Air Force's five "single games" were completed by mid-November. The first weekend of conference play, they hosted a Friday-Sunday series against Niagara and Robert Morris. Then they hosted a single game against Canisius and capped it with single games at RIT and Mercyhurst (Mercyhurst played Robert Morris on Friday to make sure neither team had an unfair rest advantage). Schedule here (http://collegehockeystats.net/1112/schedules/afam)

WCHA and CCHA both currently play 28-game schedules where every team plays every other team at least 2 times and some other teams 4 times. There is no weekend opponent mixing and home-and-homes are only done if the teams wiill play four times that season. So, in the WCHA, there are 8 teams that will only be coming to your arena every other season.

Almington
04-25-2012, 12:46 AM
The AHA is set up in two pods, an Eastern pod (Holy Cross, Bentley, UConn, AIC, Sacred Heart, and Army) and a Western one (Air Force, Niagara, RIT, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, and Canisius). Each team plays three games against teams within their pod (some 1 away, 2 home and some 2 away, 1 home) and two games against teams from the other pod (2 home or 2 away, no home and homes).

Air Force's five "single games" were completed by mid-November. The first weekend of conference play, they hosted a Friday-Sunday series against Niagara and Robert Morris. Then they hosted a single game against Canisius and capped it with single games at RIT and Mercyhurst (Mercyhurst played Robert Morris on Friday to make sure neither team had an unfair rest advantage). Schedule here (http://collegehockeystats.net/1112/schedules/afam)

WCHA and CCHA both currently play 28-game schedules where every team plays every other team at least 2 times and some other teams 4 times. There is no weekend opponent mixing and home-and-homes are only done if the teams wiill play four times that season. So, in the WCHA, there are 8 teams that will only be coming to your arena every other season.

I'm surprised that AFA didn't work with either CC or DU to have them play the each of the teams that came out for the single conference game in a NC game on the off night. Seems wasteful to have a team travel that far for a single game during the regular season.

Fishman'81
04-25-2012, 02:35 AM
The closer I look at the scheduling issues, the less I like adding anyone to HE.

ND and UConn are both "name" schools, and I'm not knocking either of them, but this is not big-budget D-1 football we're talking about... Money is going to be a real factor re: hockey.

And don't forget the PWR. Fewer OOC games by HE teams will make the comparisons even more volatile/dicey than they are now.

Whatever they do, they should rig it to maintain a balanced schedule. It's ridiculous to call an affiliation a "conference" when its members don't play each other on some sort of even footing each and every season.

(That reeks of the abomination that is NCAA football these days.)

Nick Papagiorgio
04-25-2012, 08:32 AM
Here's an idea, tell Notre Dame and UConn to go screw.

That is the best solution to this mess.

claver2010
04-25-2012, 08:39 AM
I have to agree. UCONN is no more coplicated than UMass -Amherst or Vermont. Its actually closer than Vermont to most of the schools. UCONN_UMass would work as a weekend series or as easy travel partners if HEA went that way. Its an hour from Hartford to Amherst, maybe a bit more to Storrs.Vermont is about 4 hours from both Boston and Hartford, maine is 5.5 from Hartford probably more like 4 from Boston. Bottom line is UCONN is not a scheduling problem. ND is a scheduling problem. TYhe other option, if 22 is too few games is you do 2 divisions. 3 games in your division, for 15 plus 2 games agaisnt the other division for a 27 game total But the problem is still the Irish since unless you can find another opponent 5 teams go out heref for single games, which doesn't work very well.

The difference is ND hockey brings something to the table, UConn doesn't.

But agreed with those above, 10 was fine, 11 was dumb, 12 is dumber.

theprofromdover
04-25-2012, 08:56 AM
Here's an idea, tell Notre Dame and UConn to go screw.

What he said. Especially, Connecticut.

FlagDUDE08
04-25-2012, 09:20 AM
The closer I look at the scheduling issues, the less I like adding anyone to HE.

ND and UConn are both "name" schools, and I'm not knocking either of them, but this is not big-budget D-1 football we're talking about... Money is going to be a real factor re: hockey.

And don't forget the PWR. Fewer OOC games by HE teams will make the comparisons even more volatile/dicey than they are now.

Whatever they do, they should rig it to maintain a balanced schedule. It's ridiculous to call an affiliation a "conference" when its members don't play each other on some sort of even footing each and every season.

(That reeks of the abomination that is NCAA football these days.)

You call 3 times in a season even? The only league that is even is the one y'all left in 84. ;)

FlagDUDE08
04-25-2012, 09:24 AM
Or HE could have an unbalanced schedule and play 26 to 28 conference games.

There's already enough whining from some of their members. We don't need more whining about not making the playoffs because a team had to play BC 4 times.

And them enacting the Union Rule is about as likely as Rosie O'Donnell going to a buffet and just having a salad. Their women's league has 8 teams, and 6 make the playoffs.

Patman
04-25-2012, 09:26 AM
The difference is ND hockey brings something to the table, UConn doesn't.

But agreed with those above, 10 was fine, 11 was dumb, 12 is dumber.

Other way around. UConn brings something if done right... ND is as useful ad an appendix.

Edit: and it should be clearly noted, the way the BCers treat UConn is the same way they'd treat the rest of us if they had the chance. If UConn is not in their class... Then what of the rest of the league.

Personally, I think the palpable visceral hatred is a selling point on its own just because of the attention which turns into ticket sales. Instant rivalry. After all, if our highly educated elite can turned into a frenzy at a drop of a hat then there is surely something of marketable value.

theprofromdover
04-25-2012, 09:45 AM
Edit: and it should be clearly noted, the way the BCers treat UConn is the same way they'd treat the rest of us if they had the chance. If UConn is not in their class... Then what of the rest of the league.

Personally, I think the palpable visceral hatred is a selling point on its own just because of the attention which turns into ticket sales. Instant rivalry. After all, if our highly educated elite can turned into a frenzy at a drop of a hat then there is surely something of marketable value.

Seems like this knuckledragger has forgotten about the Connecticut led lawsuit.

AMC
04-25-2012, 09:52 AM
Who was asleep at the switch in Orono, Burlington and Amherst to let their schools get absolutely ****ed like this?

Not seeing every conference team come through your arena in a given season is 100% NOT ACCEPTABLE. Why even have a conference at that point?

Craig P.
04-25-2012, 10:13 AM
WCHA and CCHA both currently play 28-game schedules where every team plays every other team at least 2 times and some other teams 4 times. There is no weekend opponent mixing and home-and-homes are only done if the teams wiill play four times that season. So, in the WCHA, there are 8 teams that will only be coming to your arena every other season.

ND has sometimes done home-and-homes against teams they only play twice in a season. When they've pulled it off, it requires three teams (all of whom only play one another twice) to work. All three series (ND at A, B at ND, and A at B) get converted into home-and-homes, keeping all three teams' schedules in balance home vs. away.


Not seeing every conference team come through your arena in a given season is 100% NOT ACCEPTABLE. Why even have a conference at that point?

The CCHA and WCHA both seem to be fine with it. I'm not saying that you should be OK with it, but it's a little hyperbolic to say that it's not even worth having a conference when a team doesn't make it to your place in a season. Very few conferences in very few sports have the luxury of enough games, few enough teams, and a small enough footprint to have every team at every school every year. (At ND, the only sport that I can think of that might pull it off is lacrosse, but the Big East is admittedly a bit of a monstrosity.)

CHFAN222
04-25-2012, 10:56 AM
The difference is ND hockey brings something to the table, UConn doesn't.

But agreed with those above, 10 was fine, 11 was dumb, 12 is dumber.

Nothing? If UCONN upgrades their program which they appear to be willing to do than they bring a lot.

They are a perfect geographic fit for HE and will finally enable the conference to say that they have every state in New England represented in the mens conference.
They be a true rival for UMASS.
If they are able to bring in at least some of the attention that the basketball programs get to hockey than it will be more than worth it.

As far as scheduling goes every other conference with 12 teams seems to handle it just fine so I don't see it being that much of an issue.